I don't have the money now seeing as school starts in a couple weeks...however...

I'm currious what those who are using the OHV external coils feel about the difference from GM to MSD coils (I don't care if you own an ECO, Quad/ld9, ohv, or whatever else). Do you really notice a difference, or is it more of a "just in case" kind of purchase...because I'm running the stock GM coils with accel wires on NGK plugs right now and they work great. I can't really imagine the MSD coils being necessary unless I were to boost the motor, where I could probably use the extra voltage to jump the gap.

So, what do you guys/gals think?


-

"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.

From my understanding, there's only a slight difference.
Its just, if you're gonna use of the MSD interfaces, then its better than not to have all MSD stuff.

I know some guys on here are useing other cars' coils.

So you should be fine with what you have.

-M


Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.

I noticed when I switched to msd coil and plugs from my gm coils on my 2.4 that I had a 'cleaner' startup.. Meaning it doesnt take more than 1 crank for the car to actually start.. Im glad I did this mod, wont go back either.









~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

Brian

Here are some results that i have came up with. On the Mustang Dyno the factory coils are about 10whp more than my MSD Digital Setup, at the time of the dyno I hade 18 deg advance on the MSD, and the normal settings for the fac coils. Since then i have advanced my MSD crank trigger to 30 deg advance and in the MSD program used the retard vs rpm program to match the factory setting, witch i got from HP Tuners. I have not been back to the dyno since. hope this helps, I have talked with Fred and PJ about my discovery.

-Ben



Overall Best times
60' - 1.857 (6/24/07)-(Drag Radials 205-50-15)
330' - 5.552 (6/24/07)-(Drag Radials 205-50-15)
1/8 - 8.690 (7/22/07)-(Conquesrt Radials 195-70-14)
M.P.H. - 81.87 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-79-14)
1000' - 11.274 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-70-14)
1/4 - 13.442 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-70-14)
M.P.H. - 104.08 (7/22/07)-(Conquest Radials 195-70-14)

** ALL MOTOR **
* 181whp @ 7600rpm *
Website: www.benwenzeljr.com

^^I think he's talking about the 2.2 OHV coils that people use on the LD9/eco ignition swaps

I'm not sure why but ben's car is consistently faster with the factory coil-on-plug ignition. I have a feeling it has to do with the advance still...

ben have you tuned the spark timing on the dyno yet?

Try running an msd through a factory coil, you will get 6 months tops out of it

MSD or nothing at all



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

Quote:

factory coil-on-plug ignition.

???
As in, 4 individual coils??? Or DIS / IDI?

Rodimus, something's wrong if you're getting 6 months out of your coils. You should be getting 6 years out of them without a problem. Folks don't seem to understand that the factory ignition module monitors current through the coil in order to bring it to saturation, then the module limits current until spark is generated. That keeps the coil charged and prevents overheating at the same time. Installing an MSD coil changes that relationship and may do next to nothing in terms of real performance. The factory coil packs are able to generate 60 kilovolts without batting an eyelash, how much more voltage do you need?

Brian, I gave up on almost everything MSD years ago. Some of the race stuff is good, but most of the product line is overpriced imo. I've seen turbo cars at 20 psi with factory DIS so I'm satisfied I can stay with an OE system for quite a while.

-->Slow

I appreciate all of the input...and pj is correct. I am talking about going from "GM 2.2L OHV coils" to "MSD 2.2L OHV coils." I think I'll just stick to the factory ones, as the car starts and runs plenty smooth on them.

Oh yeah...and Slowolej,
My IAC or the driver for it in my MS-II is really @!#$ up, because now the car can't even idle without my foot on the throttle. I'm so confused ... lol


-

"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Try running an msd through a factory coil, you will get 6 months tops out of it

MSD or nothing at all

I've been running a dis 2 on factory coils for almost 2 years now without a problem. I've never heard of a problem with an msd system using stock coils.

im talking about ecotec 2.2 coils, I cant speak for others, and as for no performance well 2-3mpg increases beg to differ as well as a running smoothness the factory ignition could never match



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

The only difference I've found on the test bench was a minor difference in primary resistance. Not much more on the secondary. Still, the current-sensing-limiting circuitry would see it and still allow only 1amp total to the coil to charge it up before breakin' the circuit. I don't see any reason for a timing re-curve to compensate, so if the MSDs put out more secondary KV (Which helps insure jumpin' the gap & a hotter lite-off.), I say go ahead. Looks like Rodimus got good results over stock, but how stock is Rodimus?

Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Before I installed the MSD DISII on the car, I was running the factory 2.2 OHV coils.
They were a vast improvement over the 2.4 IDI setup.
I ran it like this for about 2 years before switching to the MSD coil packs. Once switched over, noticed more smoothness to the whole ignition setup.
This could have been due to the fact that the 2.2 DIS coils were from the junkyard and probably a bit wore out.
With the DISII install, ignition is flawless, and smooth.
I couldn't ask for anything better and for so cheap.



Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!

When I did the full MSD DIS2HO swap it made my car run so much smoother, and like Matt said, I did notice a nice mileage increase to the tune of 3-5MPG.



I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26

Is there something inherently wrong with the stock LD9 ignition? I'm sure this has been asked and answered elsewhere...


LD9 F23 FTW!!

Yeah it's a PITA to work on and likes to fail.



I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26

toyotaz87 wrote:Is there something inherently wrong with the stock LD9 ignition? I'm sure this has been asked and answered elsewhere...

There are also no direct replacement coils, the coils stock are very weak and as we all know coils hate heat soak. Also the coil pack housings are crap.

Someone here said that the stock coils should have a 6-yr duty-life. That must be for the LD9 coils, as my OHV still is running on the factory OEM coils after 13-yrs & 190,000mi. I guess the old twin tower, which was first developed & tested by Chevy Engineering upon a Cavi Touring Sedan racer in '84 with total success, is still the best. I think I will replace mine soon with the MSDs considering all I've heard here so far, and do a secondary KV test to see how much of a difference there is over stock. I get back to you when this study is complete. (Hmmm... I wonder what gains I would see from doing the coil/module relocation? God knows ft-long wires can't be good for secondary voltage delivery, even with MSD Super Conductor wires.)

Go beyond the "bolt-on".

toyotaz87 wrote:Is there something inherently wrong with the stock LD9 ignition? I'm sure this has been asked and answered elsewhere...

Nothing at all.

Its the most powerful OEM ignition ever made.
Its incredibly reliable compared to most OEM igntions.
Its incredibly simple and easy to diagnose.

sig not found

protomec wrote:

toyotaz87 wrote:Is there something inherently wrong with the stock LD9 ignition? I'm sure this has been asked and answered elsewhere...

Nothing at all.

Its the most powerful OEM ignition ever made.
Its incredibly reliable compared to most OEM igntions.
Its incredibly simple and easy to diagnose.

I think that the coil pack housing is the weak point of the ld9 ign system. I agree stock gm coils are awesome but i dont think stock gm ld9 coils are the greatest. Either way my car has run better since i swapped to the 2.2 coils and it may have not even been a coil problem just a coil pack housing problem.

protomec wrote:

toyotaz87 wrote:Is there something inherently wrong with the stock LD9 ignition? I'm sure this has been asked and answered elsewhere...

Nothing at all.

Its the most powerful OEM ignition ever made.
Its incredibly reliable compared to most OEM igntions.
Its incredibly simple and easy to diagnose.

Won't work with MS-II. There's one reason for ya.


-

"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.

Brian Whalen wrote:
Won't work with MS-II. There's one reason for ya.

A superior device that does not work with an inferior device does not take anything away from the superior device.

Buy a more capable fuel computer.

sig not found

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you Todd. My point is, I can't use an LD9 ignition (a pre-92 quad 4 ICM, sure).

protomec wrote:
Buy a more capable fuel computer.

So does that mean you're saying the stock J-body ECM is better...don't make me laugh.


-

"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.

Quote:

So does that mean you're saying the stock J-body ECM is better...don't make me laugh.

Umm.... the stock J car pcm is better. Way better. More robust due to better testing, more code, more functionality. The problem is you (almost all of us, really ) have little access to the code. Even if we had the code given to us, the time required to learn and modify it is prohibitive. So the stock pcm is not the best tool for the job it's being asked to do in your case.

MS has gone through 2 or 3 major revisions, there have been multiple branches in the development path in terms of add on boards, and there is more than one version of code. All of this has come about because people recognize and want to fix a lack of features, some of which are basic to OEM boxes. There's a lot of good coming from MS and the groups working with it. But I can definitely recognize the OEM box is technically far more advanced than most popular aftermarket units including MS.

But anyway, I didn't see Todd limit the choices to OEM. He simply said "more capable." Could include analog boxes from Apollo spacecraft if they're more capable.

-->Slow

so, is it worth fixing if it ain't broke?



LD9 F23 FTW!!

I think I can answer that one...

Robert Wuhl (stay with me here) once said: "There's no such thing as 'More perfect'. There's perfect, and then there's all the other $h!#." In short, the LD9 ignition isn't perfect, but then neither is any other method, yet. However, given the limitations of the LD9s ignition in peak KV & modifiability, coupled with the fact that the stock LN2 coils can jump a .060" gap (which is what the factory specs on the LN2 w/ stock 8.89:1 compression) easily, I'd say the sweetness of the fruits you'd reap would be well worth this "extra" labor. But what do I know? I'm just a guy who studied magneto ignition operation in the high school career center because the instructor, who was a former "Mr. Norm" auto electrical service tech, felt I should have a full understanding of automotive ignition given my love for the machine. Type regardless.

Go beyond the "bolt-on".