Well to start off I'll tell you all what was going on before hand. One faithful afternoon my car was running perfect, no problems that I knew of what so ever. Car turned over fine, ran fine, idle was right where it was supposed to be. The only thing that might of been bad were the plugs and boots, but they were not old enough to be changed. One boot did have a broken clip on it, and I used AC Delco Plats, and running on 87 Oct gas in a 2.4l Auto in my 97 Cavalier Z24 (130k miles). I lost about half a quart of oil ever 1500 miles. The mods on it are 2.3HO intake manifold and HO 56mm TB, Pacesetter header, 2.25" cat-back, catco cat, high flow muffler, and many other little mods that you can see on my profile. Getting to the point the car was running fine all day, it sat for a few hours I had to go pick up somebody at about 10pm. The temp outside was in low 40's, I started my car and it was running at 1200RPM's. I figured it was just cold, I then reved up the engine (Now know this is a bad idea, did not know before). The car then started to idle funny and started to sputter. I ran to my exhaust and put my hand in front of it, my had was covered in some kind of fluid not sure what though. My CEL came on I grabbed my scanner and it read missfire in 4. So I took my IDI cover off and the bolts that hold down the IDI cover had a black thin fluid covering the threads, and this black thin fluid was covering alot of the area under my IDI cover. I pulled plug in cylinder #4, it was covered in the same fluid. It does not feel or smell like oil, my best guess is maybe gas and oil mixed together. It kind of has a gas smell to it but I can't be 100% positive what it is. Next morning went out pull my s10 out of the garage and put the Cavalier into the garage. I went out and bought new plugs and boots, put them in and now the car wont turn over at all. I figure my engine was blown so I went to start it and started pumping the gas pedal, the car turned over but I had to keep pumping the gas to keep it started, if I did not the car would die. Ever since then the car has been sitting in my garage. Any ideas as to what the problem could be or what I should be looking at? Thanks ahead of time for everybodys help.
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
No ideas?
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
well its not a blown engine, its normal for the car to run ritch when its cold outside and the engine is cold (eg sitting overnight) the "oil looking gas smelling" stuff you seen on the bolts is OIL and its pretty normal to see oil on the inside laying between the plugs and down the plug holes on a 2.4L they tend to leak at the cam towers. and the stuff that came out of the exhaust is just condensation mixed with carbon from combustion and running ritch.
so the car is starting and you have to keep pumping the gas for it to stay running? saying its not a carburated engine i cant see pumping the gas doing much except make the engine ritch. i would check the ignition saying thats where your getting your code... i've also seen the coils go bad and arc out causing symptoms like this. its just about impossible to "virtually" diagnose somthing over the net, just check all of your systems. what happens if you hold the throttle slightly cracked and hold it steady? keep it running till the engine warms up?
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Thanks for the info I'll check all of that 2moro I have the day off of work.
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
did you make sure to plug the plug back into the Control Module? i would check the boots, and see if the springs are still in, as well as all of the connectors and make sure the cover is on properly.
Yeah, I bought new boots, new plugs AC Delco Platinums, everything is plugged in properly and the IDI cover is on right as well. Like I said before the car will crank over but not start. Now while im trying to start it, if I pump the gas pedal the car will start but it idles real bad, and sputters. I have to keep pumping the gas to get the car to stay started. But im sure doing that is bad on the engine. I'm just baffled I have absolutly no clue what is oing on with my car. Im almost at the point of selling it to somebody for part. Anybody want to buy a 97 Z24 Auto for $1500?? Lol j/k. Thanks for all of your guys help, i know it is almost impossible to figure out what is wrong with the car over the internet without actually looking at it.
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
Sounds like a complete lack of fuel to me.... how old is the fuel filter?
Well, I understand what your coming from I was thinking the same thing as well. Because the fuel filter is pretty old on it and needs to be changed. But could something go from perfectly running one sec to dead the next second from something like the fuel filter? I just don't understand how the car is running perfect one second (rpm's a little high1200 because it was cold). Then sputtering and then dead from me just reving up the car. Could reving up the car at that moment and time loosened somthing up and get stuck in the fuel filter?
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
Dont pump the gas. That will do nothing for your car.
Turn the key and attemp to start.
If it dont go give 30-50% throttle and try again
If it still dont start floor it and try to start it.
Going past 80% throttle and having less than 400rpm on the engine will make the ECU go to "flood clear mode". The A/F for startup will be something like 20:1. Pretty much turns off the fuel injectors.
If it doesnt start then, it's not going to, and something needs fixed.
Another thing.... dump about 5 gallons of gas in the tank. It's actually more common than you think for the gas gauge to show an incorrect reading. A VERY incorrect reading. Where they only problem may be that your car is actually out of gas.
Well I checked my fuel filter and it is fine but I went ahead and put a new one on it. I went ahead and put about 3 gallons of fuel into the car. Still wont start, I pulled the plugs out again and they were covered in a thin fluid again, this time it smelt more like gas. So what are the chances that I'm getting to much fuel? Any ideas? I'm getting ready to take this car to a mechanic...
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
Thin fluid, smells like gas, no start.
Sounds like it's getting gas, but not burning it. I'd look for an ignition problem at this point. Could be looking at a variation of things, including the crank position sensor. Do you have a scanner yourself to scan it again, or no?
yeah, i have a scanner but it is not throwing a cel atm, when it was throwing a cel is said misfire in cylinder 4.
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
I had that exact problem, It was a different motor so im not sure if it will be the same on yours but my one coil went bad and only worked when I was pushing on the gas pedal. I changed it and have been good for a year now so if you have coil packs I would switch them over and try again or got to scrap yard and get two.
Project Yellow Blur Is Under Way ! ! ! ! !
Thanks for the info Brad I'll look into that.
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
I not sure about all the mods,don't try starting the car again. You should try pulling that #4 plug again and see if it is wet. Pull another one and see if it is dry, if it is the number four plug may be your porblem, could be that you'll have to keep taking this plug out and drying it until it starts drying what sounds to be like built up fluid or moisture in the number four cylinder. You can also just keep the car idling by paying with the trottle and that will dry it too, the problem seems to me to be that you're #4 pull wasn't working properly, you ended up fill the cylinder with fuel, the exhaust valve opens and let some of the unburnt fuel into you exhaust system(what was coming out you pipe, gas and carbon/moisture from inside the exhaust system and now you have to let the engine run for a while or keep drying the #4 plug to get rid of this axxess fuel, probably best just to keep the car idling to dry of the plug and it start sparking on it's own. I have a friend the has a 2200 and he pressure washes his engine and if water gets in cylinder heads he gets the same thing and he just takes it for a blast down a few streets and out on the highway to dry it out.
I hope this solves your problem, cause it will save you lots of $.
Thanks
Sunfiretuner
Well, I would try all of that if I could keep the car running but thanks for the help. I'm totaly lost with what it could be so I'm just gonna give up and take it into the machanic to work on it. My 82 s10 is getting me around just fine atm. My mechanic seems to think the car is getting to much fuel and thinks it has to do with my fuel system or ignition. I have spent hours upon hours trying every little thing I can on this car. It just does not make sence to me. I really miss drivng my cavy around...
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
OH HAPPY DAY!! Well, good news on my cavy, I was just out there putting on all my parts I took off to have it taken to the mechanic. I got it back together and decided, "What the hell lets see if it will start." So I tried to start it and it acted like it was going to. Then I decided to hold the throttle at about 30-50% and boom it started up!! I let my foot off the pedal and it stayed alive! Then I got my CEL turned the car off to read the CEL and got code "P0304" Cylinder 4 Missfire Detected. After I got the code I tried to start the car again and it would not so I put the throttle to about 50% open and it started. But had to keep my foot on the gas to keep it alive. I just went out there again and it started right up without having to open the throttle any at all, and was idleing at about 800-1000rpm going back and forth. I put my hand up to the exhuast and my hand was covered in un-burned gas, and there is white smoke coming out of the exhaust. It is still ideling funny as well, it is idleing rough enough to make my motor shake and I have RK-Sport Motor mounts. Any ideas as to what I should do before I send it off to the mechanic?? Please all and any help is needed very very badly!! I thank you all for helping me.
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
Any ideas? I'm pretty sure somewhere the car is getting to much fuel. But I have no idea as where to look. Could I have a bad FPR??
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
Ok I did some more research and I checked my FPR
Quote:
FPRs fail, its just a fact of life. If the intake and everything was full of fuel, my first step would be to find were it was comming from. To test the injectors, pull the rail and injectors off the head, turn on the key..... if fuel drips out, or even sprays, then the injector is bad. To test a FPR, turn the key on, or start the car, and pull the Vac line off the FPR..... Fuel will spray or drip out of the port on the FPR if its bad. To clear a flooded or even hydro-locked engine..... first, hold your foot to the floor, and crank the engine. If it wont crank over (but you can hear the starter engauge), pull the spark plugs and fuel pump relay. Crank the engine till you dont see fuel vapor spraying from the plug holes. Change the oil. Put the spark plugs back in, along with the pump relay. Crank the engine till it starts. If at any point you hear abnormal noises (rattles/clunks) stop cranking, there is some engine damage.
<<< This is from a post last month from SpeedRacerZ. I tried starting my engine and pulling the vaccum line on the FPR and nothing came out so I'm assuming my FPR is ok then. I still have the stock FPR btw. Then I was thinking my car might be flooded so I put the gas pedal to the floor 100% open throttle and the car started up but man she is loud and it is getting late here so I did that for a few seconds and let the car idle down. That did nothing. I called my mechanic up and he said he still thinks it is the FPR even though he has not looked at the car yet. Any other ideas?? Could it still be my FPR even though nothing comes out of it when I pull the line? I have not checked my injectors yet I keep getting code "P0304 Cylinder 4 Missfire Detected" on my scanner. Any help would be great.
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
LOL I love this a one sided conversation. If anything I'm writting out a guide on if this happens to your car you know how to fix it lol. *UPDATE* First thing I did when I had this problem was change my spark plugs usign AC Delco Platinums so if you all want to know there is 0 miles on these new plugs. I pulled spark plug #4 it is very very clean the way it should be for being brand new. But the plug is covered in gas. So I went ahead and pulled the rest of the plugs the three other plugs are black and dry. This did not seem righ to me because for being brand new plugs they were afully black and old looking. My best guess is oil is getting into my combustion chambers and coating the plugs with oil. But how could this be? Chambers 1-3 are leaking oil from either valve guides or piston rings but not in chamber 4? So the only thing I can think of is some how there is so much fuel getting into chamber 4 that it is cleaning my spark plug of oil and coating is with a nice layer of gas. I'm starting to think I have a bad fuel injector and it is staying open and dumping fuel into chamber 4. This would probably be the reasoning for my CEL code for Missfire in Cylinder 4, the weird idle, and all the gas coming out of the exhaust. Any ideas to support or go against my theory?? I would really love to fix my car myself instead of getting raped at the mechanic. Please once again all help is accepted.
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
As useful as my input is... ha ha....
You've got fuel... and loads of it... so the problem is likely spark. Start checking coils and the ignition module.
You don't think it could be an injector that is stuck open? But something more along the lines of coils or ignition module?
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
Ok I found at Autozone I can get the Coil Pack for $30.99 is there a better deal anywhere else? And if I get the Coil Pack should I go ahead and replace the Igniton Coil Cover? Or should that be ok because I can get that through Autozone for $39.99.
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
Well, I'm going to go ahead and get the coil pack from autozone and see if that does the trick. Since I have brand new plugs I can just clean them up with gas and let them dry before putting back in. If that does not work then I guess I'll test the injectors to see if # 4 is stuck open. Anymore ideas as to what else I should look at? Thanks again for all your help and I hope this topic will help somebody in the futue if they would just use the search button lol.
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
Sheesh I'm not sure why I keep posting on this topic but I do anyways hoping somebody might have a clue. *UPDATE* Well, I have been looking at ignition. The first thing I did was took my Coils out and had them tested at Autozone. Both came back with a .02-.03 on the main contacts and on the other contacts both came back with a 5.74 on the metter. In their books it says that the coil packs are supposed to be a .02-.04 on the main contacts and the other contacts are supposed to be a 6.00-9.00. But I was told that the 5.74 that we got on the meter is close enough to the range they are supposed to be at that they should still be working fine. I took my coil packs back home and installed them the oposite that factory had them in thinking that if one coil was bad I should get a missfire in a diffirent cylinder instead of cylinder #4. This was not the case I cleared my code and still got missfire in #4. So I know my coil packs are fine now. Then I started calling around and asking questions about the ignition module, and everybody told me if that went bad my car would not run at all and none of the spark plugs would spark. So then I checked my injectors they are fine. All of my injectors are still working properly and are not stuck open. So then I found out that my brand new spark plug in #4 was cracked I replaced it and still nothing. I'm getting the same codes and missfires and gas out of the exhaust. I let the car run for a while and then took my IDI cover off spark plug boots 1-3 were hot to the touch while spark plug boot #4 was cold to the touch. I changed some spark plugs around that I knew were fireing and let the car run some more. Once again 1-3 where hot to the touch while #4 was cold. So this is telling me that spark plug # 4 is not fireing at all. So once again I'm lost in the dark. Anybody have any ideas what so ever???
In the planning stage for an all American TRD Cavalier.
