1.7 or 1.8 roller rockers for 95-97 2.2 - Performance Forum
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Ok I got the rocker studs, pushrods, and nuts from a Fiero 2.8 motor. I know the 1.6 roller rockers for the 2.8 are a direct drop-in, but what about SBC 1.6, or BBC 1.7 or 1.8? I'd have to use the rocker pivots from the 2.8 or have the roller rocker ones drilled out since they're a 3/8 stud. Am I going to have clearance problems if I go with the 1.7 or 1.8, and where is that going to change my power band to?
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Hey man im not too sure but id think youll have a few problems with that setup..dont qoute me tho..just so you kow tho i have a brand new setup from comp cams to do a 1.6 roller rocker swap..studs, pushrods,rockers, and locktite..if your intrested ill sell it cheap..get ahold of me at: dragginframe22@hotmail.com
the 1.7's barely fit under a 2200 valve cover, i cant see how your gonna get the 1.8 it fit.
Philly D, nothing personal, but I didn't start this thread for people selling me stuff. As already stated, I have the studs, pushrods and nuts. El Fuego - the 2.2 and the 2200 valve covers are different. I don't know how much of a difference that is going to make for clearances.
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Well then ill be clear cause i was only trying to help....as far as i know the 1.6 crane cam rockers even on the 2.2 you have to clearance the valve cover so i dont really think that the 1.7 or 1.8 will fit but i may be wrong. The way around that may just be moroso valve cover im not too sure ..there is a thread on here if you search that goes over all that but its not an easy process...and id think youd run into clearance problems with the piston as well..phil
Lanman31337 wrote:Philly D, nothing personal, but I didn't start this thread for people selling me stuff. As already stated, I have the studs, pushrods and nuts. El Fuego - the 2.2 and the 2200 valve covers are different. I don't know how much of a difference that is going to make for clearances.
true. Just to warn you, on my 2200, i had to grind out the underside of the valve cover to fit the 1.7.
last i looked, the 2200 cover was heigher in hieght then the 2.2ohv.
El Fuego... you have the 1.7s?? or 1.6s? Last I checked HotRodV6 had started working on this but they needed more work than just dropping them in like the 1.6's did.
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You're also going to need springs, locks, retainers, all of that. The 1.7s are going overstress the springs and cause them to wear out real quick. All of that needs to be changed. And I'm not sure the geometry will be within tolerances.
"Wenn ich gehen lasse von, was ich ich bin, werden Sie, was ich bedeutet werde, um zu sein."
Ronin - good call. I didn' t know if I'd need longer pushrods or not on this project if I go bigger than 1.6; hence why I ask
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No problem. I remember this from highschool, working on small blocks and stuff, and learning about how increased lift changes valvetrain geometry and all that. Figured it would probably apply to these engines too. And I KNOW the springs will only handle 1.6:1, because I checked into it when I did my rockers, and it's posted somewhere on this site in a how-to.
"Wenn ich gehen lasse von, was ich ich bin, werden Sie, was ich bedeutet werde, um zu sein."
If you wanted to go with higher than 1.6 ratio rocker arms, you do understand that you will need a custom valve cover, and the rest of your valvetrain is going to pretty much have to be custom made. It's a waste of your time. Just get a high lift cam and the 1.6 Comp Cams rockers and you'll be just fine.
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Of coures, at that pont there's the p/p to make it all work to its full potential...
"Wenn ich gehen lasse von, was ich ich bin, werden Sie, was ich bedeutet werde, um zu sein."
Ronin wrote:Of coures, at that pont there's the p/p to make it all work to its full potential...
Right. That should be done ahead of time anyways. Experimenting with higher ratio rockers and more aggressive cams is sorta pointless without head work.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:El Fuego... you have the 1.7s?? or 1.6s? Last I checked HotRodV6 had started working on this but they needed more work than just dropping them in like the 1.6's did.
This was because (as previoulsy stated here), he was swapping in LS1 dual springs to prevent binding from the extra lift, which in turn needed a taller installed height, which meant taller valves (2200 can use 2.2L valves for a little more height, but still not quite enough), retainers and locks to adapt, and then taller pushrods, and of course a valve cover to clear all of this.
For anyone looking to do this on a 90-97 2.2L, you will most likely need custom valves, although you may be able to use CompCams dual springs 249-941-12 (60* V6), which have a very similar OD and installed height to stock, and as long as you're using Comp and not Crane rockers, you can use locks and retainers to perfect the height dliemma.
For 2200 owners, search for Mike's LS1 rocker thread for more info.
Custom pushrods will be a necessity for anything other than the 1.6:1 rockers for either engine.
Also, the 1.6:1 CompCams rockers fit under the stock 2.2L valve cover fine.
4 posts left...
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Just a randon thought here, but wouldn't using a different cam with the 1.6 pretty much net the same effect? I realize there are differences in duration, but as far as lift is concerned, how much benefit could the 1.7 ratio offer?
"Wenn ich gehen lasse von, was ich ich bin, werden Sie, was ich bedeutet werde, um zu sein."
Ahh, I'm running out of posts
Yeah, someone mentioned a cam up there, but for someone who doesn't want to have to pull the block...you have to do it all up top.
However, you also have to remember that you're still running hydraulic lifters, and you can have problems running higher spring rates, ESPECIALLY when coupled with higher ratio rockers, which will magnify the spring rate at the lifters. The only way to get around that is by using a cam instead of a higher ratio rocker. And, of course, you'll also get the benefit of longer duration if wanted.
Spotabee, you've said people have had great success with the JBP stage II on the LN2s...who's actually running one on here (not planning to, but actually doing it now)? Can we get some testimonials?
Also, if anyone could measure the length and diameter of the stock 2200 pushrods, I'd really appreciate it
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Concerning valve lift and head flow, most of the flow charts of the mild to moderate P&P'ed heads, most run out of flow around 0.480"-0.500" valve lift. A stock head would probably run out around 0.450"-0.460" valve lift.
You could probably get a good P&P done with flow numbers up to about 0.510"-0.525", but that would kill any low end torque and come really close to the water jacket, possibly cracking the head. Let alone all the work you would need to get the valve springs, locks and retainers to fit and clearance the valve guide and oil seals.
As for the rockers that fit the 2.2L, you need either the Comp Magnum or the Narrow Bodied Crane Gold Race Roller Rockers for the '87+ Small Blocks with the center bolt valve covers. I did need to do a little grinding on my valve cover for side clearance for the rockers though. Not much, just a little on the breather baffle to clear the side of the rocker at full lift. The valve are canted a few degrees, which necessitated the grinding.
A little info about rocker arms
here, at the bottom, "Did you know?"
That doesn't mean that the Comp rockers wouldn't net any gain, just not the gain you'ed get from a full Torrington bearing rocker. The Comp rockers make their gains from their stiffness and raio accuracy, both of which the stock rockers lack.
So in all fairness, what gains were people getting? I never did the mod to a stock motor, I had already done other work before I did the rockers. I made some improvement over what I did prior, but I never had it dyno'd to see if the claims people made were along the lines of the gains I saw. If I had to guess, I'd say maybe 10hp. And I do realize one motor will respond different form the next, but generally, what can one expect?
"Wenn ich gehen lasse von, was ich ich bin, werden Sie, was ich bedeutet werde, um zu sein."
Yeah, maybe 8-10hp. Most of the gain you'd see, with a stock motor, would be in the low to mid range torque.
OHV notec wrote:Ahh, I'm running out of posts
Yeah, someone mentioned a cam up there, but for someone who doesn't want to have to pull the block...you have to do it all up top.
However, you also have to remember that you're still running hydraulic lifters, and you can have problems running higher spring rates, ESPECIALLY when coupled with higher ratio rockers, which will magnify the spring rate at the lifters. The only way to get around that is by using a cam instead of a higher ratio rocker. And, of course, you'll also get the benefit of longer duration if wanted.
Spotabee, you've said people have had great success with the JBP stage II on the LN2s...who's actually running one on here (not planning to, but actually doing it now)? Can we get some testimonials?
Also, if anyone could measure the length and diameter of the stock 2200 pushrods, I'd really appreciate it
the cam can be pulled through the driver's side wheel well but it's not the recommended way of doing it. and you can't change lifters that way, which if you are changing the cam, you should upgrade with JBP's lifters. As for people operating on the stage 2 cam, I have personally talked to people (i talk to so many people, I can't remember names) that are using the stage 2 cam with nice gains.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
Ok so i just found this thread.
According to what i'm reading it's a real pain in the rear to do 1.7 rockers. How hard is it to do 1.6 rockers and a high lift cam. Can you do it engine in car, or does it have to come out. The reason i ask is, I'm on a budget but would like to do this engine up nicely.
Also, does it make a big difference switching the cam/rockers if i'm going to boost.
Sorry for sounding noob, i'm comming over from DSM's where everything is on the head and adjustable with aftermarket parts.
1.7 AFAIK has yet to be done. I don't even know if 1.7:1 rockers exist with a 'narrow-bodied' profile, and anything other than the narrow-bodied rockers will have clearance issues with the springs because of the cantered valve design.
As stated a post or two above yours, you can supposedly swap the cam through the fenderwell, but it's so easy to pull the engine on these that I don't see a point in risking it.
If going boost, an extra pound will net you more than you'd probably see from a rocker swap, there's really no point in going through all this unless you're looking for the most power possible (NA)
Check out the 2.2L roller rocker thread MadJack made for answers to everything rocker-related.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
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