i have a question for when i swap my stock cams back in this weekend. if i turn the engine over until the colored links line up correctly with the cam gear shapes( triangle and diamond) and the cam gear shapes are approx at 10 and 2 will i have to worry about the timming after that after i swap them? (as long as the lobes are facing the correct way when i am putting them back in)
MY 2003 SUNFIRE
i would honestly just open everything up and line up all the marks might be alittle more to do and take a little longer but better safe then sorry
just my .02
04 sunfire auto, mid 15's n/a, and still going
i just dont feel like taking the belt off and stuff. i mean if the cam gears are lined up right then the last has to be lined up right b/c its like a triangle if the 2 sides are 45 then u automatically know the last side is 90. u know what i'm saying?
MY 2003 SUNFIRE
dude don't argue with him, YOU asked a question and he gave the right answer... pull it apart do it right once, if thaking the belt off is your problem you put a 3/8 ratchet in the tensior and pull, and the belt slides off, you can literally have it off in 2 minuets
darkstars you having a bad day? seem kind pissed...i never said he didnt give me the correct answer alls i did was basically ask another question to see if i was able to get around taking the belt off, but if i wanna do it right on the first try it looks like i have to take it all apart.
MY 2003 SUNFIRE
hes not having a good day just to let u know
but i would take it apart and do it all the right way
wow lol seems like more and more of us who bought levelzero motorsports cams are going back to the stock cams.
i wish i could get the 600 i paid back..but i'm getting 315 from someone who wants them.... i guess half is better then nothing
MY 2003 SUNFIRE
at least you get something. I wasted 700 $ on them and am getting nothing back because I blew the motor running out of oil (head must've been badly re-installed) and got another motor through warranty.
Ohh3SunFire wrote:darkstars you having a bad day? seem kind pissed...i never said he didnt give me the correct answer alls i did was basically ask another question to see if i was able to get around taking the belt off, but if i wanna do it right on the first try it looks like i have to take it all apart.
yes very bad day, sorry I don't mean to take it out on you
its all good i was just trying to find away around tasking the belt off
MY 2003 SUNFIRE
you can just do it from the top, but you might time it wrong, which is what my mechanic and i did, and i think i have to redo it. You need to make sure they all line up perfectly. Take the extra time and do it right like this:
-take the cams out and gears.
-put the new cams in without gears
- turn the cams to about where they should be
-put the caps on
-take off the side of the motor
-line up the link on the crank.
-take the gear for the intake cam and line up the intake mark on the gear and turn the cam so it fits in place then put the bolt in.
-do the same with the exhaust cam
-if all of the marks line up, put the chain tensior in.
- now turn it, make sure its not tight
-put it back together. Shouldnt take too long.
Really, do it like this, because i did mine the short way and im pretty sure im a tooth off, so its running bad.
well i have a cam gear tool when i plan to do it turn the engine over till its all seems to aligned correctly and then bolt down the cam gear tool...loosen the first cam take it out and new one in and same for the other cam.
MY 2003 SUNFIRE
i know it was a bit more work taking it all apart but when i had to retime mine im glad i did i could know its right on. when i first installed mine i tried just through the top and did almost have it but the cam gear slipped. i know what you mean just wanting to keep it simple. no offence taken
04 sunfire auto, mid 15's n/a, and still going
There is no quick way of doing a cam swap which I wouldn't recommend without PCM tuning which there is none right now.
But if you must find out the hard way, don't take any short cuts even if you have some supposely special cam gear tool that holds the chain timed while you do your business.
If you don't want to go threw all the right steps (which will take exactly two days) then don't bother installing cams.
- Get the car on jacks
- Take the passenger wheel off along with the engine bay inner plastic fenders
- Remove timing cover ,crank bolt, and valve cover
- line up the cranks key to 12 o'clock position and crank gear dial to the 5 o'clock
- exhaust and intake cams should be lined up
-remove chain tensioner
-remove cam bolts ( which buy the way you have to buy all new ones because they are one time use only stretch bolts)
-remove cam gears
-remove power steering pump
-remove cams and replace cam caps because those bolts are also stretch bolts
-install cams along with lube grease on lobes,cam followers,lifters and bearings
-line the cams timing gear SLITS to look like eyebrows on a frowning or sad face (sounds stupid but best way to describe it and you'll know what I mean if you do it)
-install timing gears
-line timing chain to blue timing key on the exhaust diamond and both red timing keys on the intake diamond and crank gear dial
-reverse whole process and TORQUE EVERYTHING DOWN TO SPECS
Now, do you want to install performance cams that you'll have to take off because the engine will throw codes because it has to be tuned for it. Oh, and if you think you'll just live with the codes, don't worry, your car won't be any faster than stock cams because the PCM goes crazy by pulling the timing out of nowhere and can't get the fuel curve right at all.
These engines aren't carbereuted 350s that use vacuum for when it delivers fuel and raw igniton systems.
Oh, and if you have a regrinded stock cam, YOU HAVE TO INSTALL SHIMS UNDERNEATH THE LIFTERS TO RAISE THEM FOR COMPENSATION OF THE LOBES.
If you don't, it'll sound like a diesel engine with all the clacking.
what counts as 2 days for you two 12 hour days? or 48 hours total or what. we are gonna have 4 people working on it starting at 8am on friday morning.
MY 2003 SUNFIRE
GM freak... don't give advise unles syou knwo what your talking about
Darkstars wrote:GM freak... don't give advise unles syou knwo what your talking about
for starters...
-2 days? you have to be retarded to take 2 days doign it the right way, try 3 maybe 4 hours.
- you don't have to line up any key ways on anything, if all 3 timing marks line up its timed right, its that simple
- the cam bolts and caps are NOT torque to yield bolt, they have an actual torque spec not a torque spec + XX degrees
-the colored links are the chain are different form year to year
-as for the car not running right, the car will adapt the fuel over time and you can rig it up to not pull timing
-and shimming the lifters!!
they are hydraulic you don't shim anyhting
Hey Darkstar
What the heck ever you believe,
Hey man I'm not going to argue with you, you know it all.
I only got this from GM engineers and technicians, but hey what the hell I know on a 2003 Ecotec. You know, my advice is worthless.
2 days? Maybe I'm more meticoulous than most peolpe but I pay attention to EVERYTHING and take my time ensuring EVERYTHING is right.
The timing keys have different colors.
And ALL GM bolts are Stretch bolts WHICH DO require certain torques according to GM MANUELS.
AND the GM ECU WILL NOT Adapt to cams over time, just call HPTuners and CaspersElectronics if you don't believe me.
AND you have to SHIM the cam to 0 LASH which is not evident in regrind cams.
I'm a tech at a t deaership that its VW and GM, so if I tell you I'm he easter bunny will youbelieve that to?
your intitled to think what you want just don't get upset when your wrong
Man oh man, I just don't get you guys. I swapped the original LZM test cams in myself, without removing any wheels or front cover, just zip tied the gears, and did the whole thing at TDC.
My car runs fine, throws a code for rich idle once in a blue moon(about once a month, or 2-3000km's in my case), goes away after about 100km of driving, car runs exactly the same with the CEL on as off.
Car is definitely a lot more powerful than stock, my wife's stock 03 5 speed 4 door sunfire is damn slow compared to mine, back to back driving experience down the same roads, and my only other current mod is an AEM CAI, oh and I just put on the Carcustoms aluminum crank pulley, but that's it! There is question about the dyno on the day my car was tested, but the temp sensor reading on the dyno was normal on my runs, we checked it afterwards. Other runs were compromised on some of the other cars, due to a break in the wire to the dyno temp sensor, but my temp readings were normal. I will be doing another dyno session on a different dyno once I get my p&p o/s valve head finished, as well as header/full mandrel exhuast. It should be pretty easy to verify that the previous dyno run was good, even though my baseline of 133.8whp with the AEM CAI only is pretty much what you would expect, and it was on the same dyno as the run with the cams..
i'm just happy i'm getting these POS cams out of my car. they have been a huge disappointment and a lot of headaches. also A LOT of wasted money perhaps they should have used more then 1 test car b/c ya know not every car reacts the same way. and maybe its only a canadian thing b/c thats only who it seems to work for.
MY 2003 SUNFIRE
I was going to get those cams, but i saw how a lot of people were having trouble with them, so i got some stage I cams. They pratically make the same power without the codes. I bet once the computers can be programmed to handle them, the stage II cams will be a lot better, but for now im sticking with the stage I.
OK Darkstar,
I'm wrong. So you have already swap in your cams in one day without shooting any codes. How much did you dyno with them?
