What soft wear is there to burn GM E-Prom's?

Also, is there a prom inside of the Rockit parts ECM?

Gilles?


Thanks

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

There's a prom in the RP ecm. AD27C256 chip.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

tunerpro or tunercat are those that i now...

There's 4 steps to burning a chip.

1) Reading or getting an original file.

2) Making changes to the calibration in the file.

3) Erasing the original chip.

4) Burning the new file into the chip.

Each step requires different equipment. 1 + 4 need an eprom burner and a memcal adapter or very careful work with a soldering iron (you don't want to solder a chip every time). Step 2 requires tuning software... TC or Tunerpro. Step 3 requires an eraser, an ultraviolet light of the right frequency.

There are a few other ways to get it done, you can use EEPROMs or Flash PROMs instead of the UV erase EPROM then you don't need an eraser. But you will need to replace the chip in the memcal with a socket, the flash chip, or an adapter like the Hypertech chips use. You can also use an "emulator" (strongly recommended for serious tuning) which replaces the chip and allows you to make changes to the calibration while you drive.

hth
-->Slow

i can replace my chip right now with the oem computer..... i thought with cars like DSM's you had to soder a prom in......... kinda lost now



?
-Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

No soldiering of proms please. Add a socket if you must and swap them.

Which gmpcm are you trying to figure out, i have an extensive database of tunable pm programs as well as .xdf's and .ads files if you need them.

Let us know, the pcm will have a number like 16196285 along with a 4 letter code,

The Ecm I'm sending to Chris is not a production Ecm. It's from the Rocket Part Catalogue and doesn't have the serial number nor the Eprom code. The only thing available is the part number. Chriss will need to go test and trial to find the right software.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

Wow thats going to suck. Theres thousands of calibrations out there. If you need any help determining which one is running on your ecm let me know, i'm pretty good at identifying the pcm by the code on the eeprom.

.... still lost,
the prom in my car now has clips holding it in, i would not sodder it......

i can probly get a prom # off of it using my OTC4000

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

OK talked to Brian, got the burning part down,

where do i buy an adapter to burn just a EProm out side of the ECM?

Thanks

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

moates.net got everythings you need

so when thay say "chip" thay meen the Memcal, NOT the EProm?

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

you can buy an adapter from moates so you can keep your memcal and change the chip as you want.
read that thread link its all explained in there. it will help you

Ok for this one if you can read the program off the chip then send it in .bin format, i can open up the program and help you determine if it is programmable. If so, then i can help you find everything you'll need. Up till 6 months ago the 95 jbody pcm was a mystery, but with the help of myself and a few others we were able to build a viable tunable pcm software file.

When people say "chip" they may can mean the memcal, or the actual chip, or the calibration inside the chip. It depends on who you're talking to and how familiar they are with computers and what they know in general.

The memcal contains a 28 pin chip, also known as an Eprom. In the case of the quad 4 engines it's usually a 27256 or variant which can contain up to 32 kilobytes of code and / or data. The memcal also contains chips necessary for Backup Fuel, also known as "limp home" or sneaker mode. Backup fuel is used if there's a major failure within the chip programming. Backup fuel is generally not used when engine sensors fail. In addition to the backup fuel logic, the memcal contains a white board which has circuitry to filter and tune the knock sensor signal.

The memcal does not fit directly into an eprom burner. Reading the code and data from the 28 pin chip requires desoldering and removing the chip. Some inventive people found that a 50 pin SCSI ribbon cable header like you'd find on a motherboard could be used as an adapter to allow reading the chip without desoldering it. Today you can buy an adapter which does the same job.

The memcal has a quartz window which is normally blocked. If the window is uncovered and the right frequency of ultraviolet light is shined in for enough time, the data inside will be erased. This is the first step to reprograming. After the chip is erased it can be placed into a burner and programmed, wither through the adapter or directly if the chip has been removed from the memcal.

Technology has come a long way since Eprom's were developed. It's possible to buy EEprom's or flash proms, both of which can be erased electronically without the 2 - 5 minute wait a UV eraser can require. This cuts programming time and effort considerably. If you choose to use one of these newer chips you'll need to remove or bypass the original chip. Some people desolder the original chip and solder the newer one back in then use the adapter from above whenever they want to reprogram it. Others will remove the old chip and install a small ZIF socket which allows chips to be easily and quickly replaced. This way it's possible to keep several different calibrations close by for quick and easy comparing. A third method is to use something like the Hypertech adapters which bypass the OE chip but keep the knock filter and backup fuel connected to the ecm.

An emulator is great for saving time when tuning. If you want to change timing with chips, you need to stop the car, remove the memcal or chip, erase it, burn a new one with the changes, install it, restart the car, and drive it to see if you made the right change. With an emulator you pull the car over, make the changes on your laptop and presto! They're sent directly to the emulator and the ecm. You can actually make changes while you're driving (provided it's safe to do it). That can't be done with a regular memcal and eprom / flash chip. An emulator is like an "all electronic" chip.

If you decide to read the chip from the RP ecm you should follow some simple rules.
1) Practice reading and writing on other chips first. Get an idea of what it takes to run your software before installing that irreplaceable memcal in it.
2) search all over the large chip in the memcal for the chip size. Look for numbers like 27256, 27128, 27C512, or something similar. You probably won't find anything useful because GM often uses chips which don't have commercial markings.
3) If you can't find the chip series / size, be very, very careful about guessing. It's usually safer to start with the C series of chips. 27C256, 27C512, etc
4) Save multiple copies of the calibration. Make a special directory to save it in and don't edit anything in that directory.

It's also possible to tell what Mask ID you've got by opening the file in a hex editor like winhex or xvi32 (free) and looking at the 8th byte. I'm betting that the value there will be AA which means "engineering file." If you have some other value like CE or 8B then you can check tunercat's page to see if they have a definition file for you.

BTW, here's a picture of a memcal which I've removed the chip from using a soldering iron and installed a socket (blue, on RH side) for easy chip changes.


-->Slow

^ I can't wait to get mine back.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

Your memcal is all stock. That way there's no chance of a problem.

You're getting one of the adapters on the left in this picture:
http://www.hypertech-inc.com/images/product_art/3chips.jpg


-->Slow

Nice post slow, i wish i had the time to followup with a post that in depth.

Basically that was a mini tutorial. Do we know what ecm mask this RP chip is running. Or is it a custom chip?

I'd be willing to use my knowledge to try to help disassemble the file, perhaps it could be useful someday.

OK.. agane, there is not a way for me to

A. take my Eprom, and read it.

B. mod the calabration of it on my computer.

C. burn a new Eprom?


or is this just me thinking there should be a simpler way?

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

The RP ecm was never released to the general public. You could purchase the ecm and calibration by part number out of the Olds RocketParts book based on your specific vehicle and engine. There was also a "rocketparts" data recorder which could be used with the ecm. There is absolutely no information about these units in GM's street car service manuals. I think you'd probably need to know someone involved in the Olds SCCA program in the late 80's and early '90s to get any in depth information.

Quote:

OK.. agane, there is not a way for me to

A. take my Eprom, and read it.

B. mod the calabration of it on my computer.

C. burn a new Eprom?


or is this just me thinking there should be a simpler way?

If you don't get this, don't mess with the RP eprom. If you mess it up it's probably lost forever. Find some used memcals on Ebay or from some friends and practice on them. Other than that, what are you asking? Do you want someone to say "buy this, this, and this then do this, this and this?"

If you want to do this yourself, start by focusing on getting the tools to read the calibration. Get a memcal adapter like the Moates HDR1, a burner, and a laptop or pc which will work with the burner. And get some other memcals to practice on!
http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=25_36&products_id=52

Note that the Burn1 burner on moates.net will read the stock type chip but it will not reprogram it.

-->Slow

If your looking to just tune a Jbody, you may want to look into available options. if your J is 96 on up, your options there are:

1. Swap to odb1
2. Buy Piggy back devices
3. Buy HPTuners

Well the swap to odb1 is worth it, but is also time consuming and not for the novice. Basically a odb1 swap includes sensors, wire harnesses, pcm, anything else thats related to odb1 operations.

The piggy back option is just plain a bad idea. Your stock pcm tries to match a stock program, and all modifying the signals to the pcm will do is confuse the poor thing. SAFC's work to a point, so if your just a casual novice tuner who likes to show off gagetry, then piggyback may be for you.

For the more experienced tuner who doesnt want to swap to odb1, you can buy HPTuners. You can tune it quite a bit like the ODB1 but through the HPTuners software.

Your choice but remember, auto tuning is not a drop in application, nor is it for someone who doesnt understand engine dynamics. Realize if you tune it wrong, you could blow your engine or worse, cause death.

swapping to OBD1 is not that hard, all you need to do is repin the connector, so its take wires out of your 96 plugs and put it in the right position in the 95 connectors. all sensors will be good and wont need to change them except for the map, you will have to get the 95 map. so all you need is the 95 computer with plugs, no harness or other sensor is needed.

as for going with hpt, you will have to swap to 97+ ecu since hpt doesn't support 96! this i dunno as i never done it, but i think you would also have to repin the wire like the 95 swap... (dont quote me on that tho)

AHAHHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHH...

i know in and out how to tune OBDII, my Z24 is a 02, look at my sig..............

im geting a quad4 rockit part ECM, but i am going to need to mess with the idle for some large cams i have .450 lift intake/ .430 exhsut.


i just always thought there was some way to read the info on one prom, save it on a lap top, mess with some of the calabrations, and burn it in to a new PROM,


no sodering, or mem call @!#$ at all. just proms! compleat proms.


Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Quote:

no sodering, or mem call @!#$ at all. just proms! compleat proms.

Yes, there is. Get an old computer. It's called a C3, and some of the common numbers are 1227747, 1227748, and there's a bunch of others. They're slow. They are tougher to tune since there's very little information from the ALDL. But they're out there. Grand Nationals used a C3, early Sunbird turbo's used a C3, Cavalier and Sunbirds with TBI used a C3. The quad 4 never came with a C3 AFAIK. You'll still need to buy an eraser and a burner before you can make any changes. And you'll spend a ton of time changing the engine parameters to match your engine.

The adapter is trivial. It's like getting upset about having to use lugnuts to put the wheel on. Once you have it you can use it again and again. I made my own years ago using a SCSI cable header and a piece of solder type prototype board from Radio Shack. It was cheap and it works.

Soldering is only to make your life easier. If you get serious about tuning it's possible to make hundreds of changes before you're happy. There's so much to adjust, there's really no excuse for an engine which doesn't run right. After about 10 - 20 reburns you'll say "I've got to find an easier way." The socket and EEprom is an easier way.

Maybe you can find someone that burns proms. When I first started learning about tuning I had a local video game and video gambling machine company read a chip for me. The guy was interested in what I was doing, but he probably wouldn't have done much more since he was buried in work already.

-->Slow

thats the answer i wanted.

thanks.

well i guess ive got some stuf to buy....


Thanks

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08