Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation - Boost Forum

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Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Monday, May 30, 2005 2:41 PM
I've been getting a ton of questions regarding my alcohol injection setup so I'm going to take the time to explain it all now. I've been holding out on doing so because I've been contemplating whether or not I'm going to attempt to sell the kit as a group purchase.

The system consists of a fuel injector that's attached to the intake track of the engine BEFORE the throttle body at a 45 degree angle perpendicular to the top of the throttle body. The point of this is to get the alcohol to cool the blades of the GM supercharger. THE BLADES OF THE GM SUPERCHARGER ARE COATED IN TEFLON. THEREFORE, THEY WILL NOT CORRODE DUE TO THE ALCOHOL! Sorry about the shouting but it's a common thing that nobody pays attention to. Another cool aspect of the alcohol is the fact that it cleans things. I took my throttle body off of the car on Saturday because I flooded my TPS with water thanks to not covering it with a plastic bag while washing the engine bay out. To my surprise, the throttle body was nearly SPOTLESS on the inside because I have been spraying alcohol for nearly three months. Imagine what it's doing to the cylinder walls and head of the piston....

The injector is then connected to a pump that has an internal relay to regulate the pressure of the system to roughly 60psi. I'm using a higher pressure than 43.5psi for standard fuel injectors because it tends to atomize the alcohol/water mix better. When you put power to the pump, the pump will run until the pressure reaches 60psi. When the alcohol is spraying, the pressure will go down and the pump will kick on again when it gets near 45psi. This works great because you don't have a pump operating the entire time the car is on...therefore increasing the life of the pump and reducing heat produced by the electric motor. The pump is then connected to a large 2 gallon tank that is in my trunk. This tank also has a low level sensor that is connected to a light on my gauge pillar.

The entire system is controlled by my Greddy E-Manage. I have the injector hooked up to the V-TEC (hehe, shut up) channel on the system. Using this channel, allows me to open the injector relative to the rpms, and either throttle position or manifold pressure. Here's a picture of the settings in the E-Manage to show you what I mean:



Another way the system can be controlled is either by a pressure switch that will activate at a certain psi or by using a microswitch that's mounted to the throttle body or throttle pedal. If I see enough interest in the system to make a group purchase, I will give you a choice of either an e-manage controlled system (NO, I'm not selling e-manages with the system), pressure switch controlled system, or microswitch controlled system.

Here's a couple pics:

Shot of my intake (bought off of eBay years ago for those who ask) and the pump (on the driver's strut tower)


Pic of the injector mounted in the intake track using an injector boss:


Picture of the pump:


Picture of the tank in the trunk:


Picture of the tank low light on my gauge pillar:


Sorry for the crappy pics. I didn't check the settings on my camera. Yeah, I'm lazy.

As far as effective results go for the system, heat soak has been eliminated!!! Last weekend, I ripped down Lapeer Dragway 8 TIMES IN A ROW over a period of 20 minutes. To my surprise after the runs, I popped my hood and felt the supercharger. Ice cold baby. Ice fricken cold. The thing was maybe 70-80 degrees on the outer casting. I'm now running the Pulley Boys Qwikchange 2.5" pulley without any heat soak problems. Absolutely awesome.

As I've already stated, I'm considering making this system available to the org as a group purchase. If I've calculated everything correctly, the system would be around $350-$400. It might also be a tiny bit cheaper if you purchased the system ready for being adapted to the E-Manage since no additional hardware is needed.

Other things I didn't mention were the system will come with all brass fittings (except for the plastic ones included with the pump) and kevlar reinforced hose. EVERYTHING in the kit is resistant to the expansion and corrosion of alcohol and methanol!! This is the huge killer with the crappy little $150 eBay kits. They are not designed for long term exposure to these chemicals. Also, all brackets, screws, clamps, etc. will be included in the kit. There is also a 12 volt relay wired to the pump to cut the power to it when the car is not on.

As far as mounting the injector goes, we have a couple options. If you are doing the GM supercharger kit, I can mount the boss onto the PCV hose vent (the piece that mine is mounted on) if you were to send it out to me. I can also include a brand new one with the system however, a core charge will apply (price TBD) since I'd have to order one from GM parts direct. If you send me the old one after you install the new one, I'll refund the core charge. My injector boss is mounted using JB Weld. The part isn't a high stress part and the JB has been holding up just fine. However, your injector boss will be welded onto the vent tube just for the sake of quality.

If you are mounting this on an RSM system, you can send me your charge tube and I'll weld the injector boss accordingly on the underside. I will not stock RSM charge tubes so either you send me the part, or you deal with it on your own.

This system is intended for supercharger applications. However, if you want to spray methanol into a N/A motor (don't ask me what kind of horsepower gains methanol gives because I have no clue), I will weld the boss to a metal tube that you can put in your intake track somewhere. The closer to the throttle body, the better.

If you are seriously interested in this system, please let me know by email. Send requests to thepute2@aol.com specifying if you want an E-Manage ready, pressure sensor, or microswitch system. Also specify if you are putting this on a GM s/c, RSM s/c, or N/A engine.

NO LISTS!! ABSOLUTELY NO GP LISTS IN THIS THREAD!! EMAIL ME!!





<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">

Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Monday, May 30, 2005 2:57 PM
Did you mess with the pressure switch on that Surflo pump?




275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!

Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Monday, May 30, 2005 3:01 PM
It would be nice if you could develope a kit for the ion red lines if you get the time. Many of us seem to be interested.

www.redlineforums.com



Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Monday, May 30, 2005 3:12 PM
Nice post about your kit and possible other kits! I would be interested in the kit for the GM blower with either the pressure switch or micro-switch as I am currently running the 2.7 embree and under warm weather conditions as well as my boost gauge showing me lower boost, just doesn't have that pull it had with the cool weather. I think this kit would help greatly.
Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Monday, May 30, 2005 3:21 PM
Adler,
Nope.

FromCavyToRedline,
I was actually going to extend the same offer to Cobalt and Redline owners if they felt the need for it.


<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Monday, May 30, 2005 3:48 PM
When some more mods come out for the red line and SS/SC there will be a bigger demand for it. there is one seller on the redlineforums that has an injection kit, but i think only one person has purchased it and is trying it out.
Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Monday, May 30, 2005 4:00 PM
awsome post man you answered alot of my questions regarding the kit. I should have all of the parts together for the kit i have been working on this week... thanks again Patrick



Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Monday, May 30, 2005 5:47 PM
mr. pute can you contact me I would be very interested in purchasding a setup from you



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Monday, May 30, 2005 7:51 PM
email sent



www.OverloadCars.net
Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:51 AM
One thing I totally forgot to talk about:

The injector I have on my alcohol system right now is a 1000cc pintile spray pattern. I need to purchase a 1000cc conical spray pattern injector to replace it with. This is because the pintile patten does not atomize the stream well enough. It actually comes out of the head of the injector in 6 little streams versus a vapor form that the conical will do. This will ensure that the alcohol mixture will be consistant going to the engine and not varied.

I did some research into the nozzles other companies are providing with their alcohol injection kits and 1000cc is right around the area in which they provide.


<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:14 AM
awesome








Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 12:32 PM
Hmmm. Well....my friend that was running it with his GTP took it OFF. Mainly because he wen't with an intercooler. But before he took it off he noticed he was having problems getting it back to the pre-injection peak boost. When he took the S/C off to mount the I/C he noticed that it ate the coating off of the S/C blades which caused a bigger gap between them which in turn LOWERED his BOOST. IIRC he gets 2-3 psi lower because of it. It sounded like a good idea at the time.....but it will probably hurt in the long run.









Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 3:16 PM
Lash wrote:Hmmm. Well....my friend that was running it with his GTP took it OFF. Mainly because he wen't with an intercooler. But before he took it off he noticed he was having problems getting it back to the pre-injection peak boost. When he took the S/C off to mount the I/C he noticed that it ate the coating off of the S/C blades which caused a bigger gap between them which in turn LOWERED his BOOST. IIRC he gets 2-3 psi lower because of it. It sounded like a good idea at the time.....but it will probably hurt in the long run.


Hmmm. Well....did it ever occur to you that something else could of caused the removal of the coating? How about mileage on the vehicle? How about the bearings in the supercharger? The most common cause of supercharger failure on the GTPs is the bearings destroy themselves over a period of time. This causes the blades to spin at different angles.....which eventually leads to them hitting each other.

Ask any chemist that knows what their talking about dude. Teflon is NOT EFFECTED by alcohol!


<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 4:44 PM
Here's a little research I just did.....AGAIN:

http://www.vulcan-eng.com/chem/resin.htm

Other Names: Alcohol, grain alcohol, ethanol
Formula: C2H5OH
Viscosity: Water thin
Sp. Gr.: 0.82

Remarks: Colorless, volatile liquid. b.p. 78°C / 172°F, freezing point -117°C / -178°F. Soluble in water, methyl alcohol and ether. Vapor pressure 43 mm @ 20°C / 68°F, flash point 14°C / 57°F. Used as a solvent and in the manufacture of dyes, synthetic drugs, synthetic rubber, detergents, cleaning solutions, cosmetics, pharmaceuticals and explosives. Used as an anti-freeze, as a beverage and a rocket fuel. Flammable liquid.

http://www.pumpschool.com/liquidlist/index.htm#U


http://www.dupont.com/teflon/films/H-55008-2.html

Teflon® is the most inert of all plastics.

DuPont FEP film is chemically inert and solvent-resistant to virtually all chemicals, except molten alkali metals, gaseous fluorine, and certain complex halogenated compounds such as chlorine




http://www.integument.com/products/chemical.php

A <10% swelling, <15% loss of tensile strength, little or no chemical attack.
B <15% swelling, <30% loss of tensile strength, minor chemical attack.
C <20% swelling, <50% loss of tensile strength, moderate chemical attack.
NR >20% swelling, >50% loss of tensile strength, attacked or dissolved.

Methyl Ethyl Ketone A to 300°F
Methyl Alcohol (Methanol) A to 300°F




http://www.dupont.com/teflon/films/H-55007-2part4.html

Typical Chemicals with Which DuPont FEP Film is Nonreactive

Ethyl alcohol
Methanol

Straight from the horses mouth TWICE I found that Teflon is resistant to alcohol and methanol.

Alcohol and methanol DOES NOT CORRODE Teflon!!!

End of argument.


<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:38 PM
Remember....I was pro water/alky injection.....until he did it.


I guess you shal see then. He's a member here now but rarely comes on here. I can have him post if you want.



Before he had injection.....no boost problems. After injection....boost problems and after visual inspection the tefflon coation is worn.


Besides....it also screwed up his primary O2 sensor twice.








Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:40 PM
You might want to add another light that goes off if the pump fails also.






Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:40 PM
by off.....I mean on






Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 7:23 PM
Excelent Mr.Pute. Really good info and amazing stuff.

Regards,


___________________________
MAKING MY DREAMS A REALITY
Visit my cardomain site !!!

ELIOT. Now.....boosted.

Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:08 PM
Forgot to mention that. The system will also include a light that goes on when the pump is activated (meaning not when power is sent to the pump but when the pump actuates)

Lash.......your friend's situation is totally coincidental. There has to be another explanation for what happened. I've given you all the proof needed to show that alcohol does NOT destroy Teflon.

You still didn't comment on the mileage of the car. What about sand or dirt from roads?

Moot point I guess. I've proven my point. Show me solid proof that alcohol did the damage on your friend's blower and I'll give in.

I can install a alcohol injection kit on my car and have a tire blow out the next day. I don't go blaming the akly because it's the last thing I did to the car.


<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:32 PM
Lash wrote:Besides....it also screwed up his primary O2 sensor twice.

I have been running with alcohol on my 99 2.2 ohv for almost 10 months, and I have not had a problem with the o2 sensor. The car has gone through about 12 gallons of methanol with the same o2 sensor.




275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!

Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:45 PM
Mr. pute, I am veryinterested shoot me and email with the betails of your kit...ie price and availaiblity
Welch!082@hotmail.com


<img src= "http://www.j-body.org/registry/will1026/willsig.jpg">
15.6727@86.7124 at capitol raceway

Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:50 PM
Welch1082@hotmail.com sorry about that



<img src= "http://www.j-body.org/registry/will1026/willsig.jpg">
15.6727@86.7124 at capitol raceway
Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 9:45 PM
The only thing i can think of that might have cause the Supercharger to have damage is the roots supercharger is a positive displacement unit, and liquids do not compact like air does, there for when you add liquid into the supercharger it would have to find a way to squeeze threw the blades.... But thats just theory.... and if i had the Money right now i would buy one of these kits from Mr Pute, as i have seen first hand what alcohol injection can do for Boosted cars..



Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Friday, June 03, 2005 10:51 AM
i sent an email.. wats up man?



www.OverloadCars.net
Re: Alcohol Injection Pics and Explanation
Friday, June 03, 2005 11:59 AM
illd9 wrote:i sent an email.. wats up man?


Sorry dude. I've been busy as hell with school this week. We don't get out until June 18th.

For all that have inquired, I'll have number crunched this weekend to determine final pricing. Thanks for your patience.


<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
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