Quiklilcav wrote:when are people going to see this administration for what it really is?

May I say that both administrations, republican and democrats, really stink for allowing this to happen.
Thanks to both we are in this hole, and we keep falling and falling and falling like free falling

Like I said before:

spoiler wrote:to fix the economy people need to get their jobs back, get paid and start spending. how is that going to happen?
I do not know the answer to that.

I still do not know the answer. Wal mart is now laying off. we need to stop this thing but how?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, February 10, 2009 5:17 PM

Let it fall, then let it build itself back up, after all, it is free enterprise.

Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

spoiler wrote:I still do not know the answer. Wal mart is now laying off. we need to stop this thing but how?

Tax cuts for everyone, and businesses, and infrastructure spending that starts immediately.

Interesting that you brought this up. You know that Wal-Mart has been getting shut out repeatedly when they are trying to build new stores, that would bring tons of jobs to an area? Not only do you have the jobs created for the people who would work in that store, but also all of the construction trades would get work. There is a lot of money involved in building one of the 100,000+ square foot stores. I find it amazing that in areas where people will stand up and cry about the lack of jobs in their area, there are just as many opposing such projects as a new big-box retail store coming to their area. Check this out.

On the topic of the stimulus plan, nice bipartisan work they had on it: closed-door sessions with Pelosi, Reid, and only Democrats was held last night to work on the House/Senate compromise. There were zero Republicans included in this. Complete bullsh!t.

I've heard that the three spineless Republicans are still going to support it. I'm furious over this. Especially since what was cut out of it in the "compromise" was some of the tax cuts that the Republicans demanded. The new "bipartisan" way: Democrats do what they want, and Republicans need to get on board with it.

a post from another forum I'm on. I liked it.

Quote:

Either the majority of the Federal government have never read the 'Federalist Papers'; studied our founding fathers; or cherish the constitution, or they have and are purposely forcing this great country down an unstoppable path to socialism. Socialism is not the goal of this government but only a means to force us into subjugation. Socialism is a religion more so than it is an economic policy. It forces the citizen to rely on the government for everything. It demands you tithe the fruits of your labor to itself. Once everyone depends on and worships the government for even the most basic needs (such as bread), then the citizens capability to resist a tyrannical police state will not exist.

The economic implications of this bailout are insignificant compared to the open and obvious attempt to strip everyone of their right to life, liberty and the PERSUIT of happiness.

The Founding Fathers agree with me:
"No right [should] be stipulated for aliens to hold real property within these States, this being utterly inadmissible by their several laws and policy." --Thomas Jefferson: Commercial Treaties Instructions, 1784.

"To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association--'the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.'" --Thomas Jefferson: Note in Destutt de Tracy's "Political Economy," 1816. ME 14:466

"By nature's law, every man has a right to seize and retake by force his own property taken from him by another by force or fraud. Nor is this natural right among the first which is taken into the hands of regular government after it is instituted. It was long retained by our ancestors. It was a part of their common law, laid down in their books, recognized by all the authorities, and regulated as to circumstances of practice." --Thomas Jefferson: Batture at New Orleans, 1812. ME 18:104


“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” — James Madison, 4 Annals of Congress 179, 1794

“I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it.” — Benjamin Franklin

“The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.” — Benjamin Franklin

“…[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.”
-James Madison

“An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among the several bodies of magistracy as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others.”
-James Madison, Federalist No. 58, February 20, 1788

Desert Tuners

“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”

Good quotes, Jarett.

This bill is the largest attack on our way of life, and our liberties, that this country has seen. It is being passed without a spec of transparency (as the Democrats claimed they would allow), and against the will of the majority of Americans. The more information that comes out about it, the further the approval rating drops.

The Democrats still have not even let the Republicans in the House or Senate read the text (they have given an "overview" only). This makes me more furious than ever that the three renegade Republicans are still supporting it. I can't emphasize enough that people need to harass the living sh!t out of their congressmen and let them know how you feel about it. If you are still unsure how you feel, read it. I would be very surprised at anyone who reads through it, and understands what it means, still supports it once they do.

Well, the House passed the "compromise" bill, but it was still opposed by all of the Republicans, and 9 Democrats. It's nice to see a bi-partisan example of upholding the constitution and the founding principles of the country.

Supposedly the Senate will vote on it tonight around 10pm EST. Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are so f&$king dead set on ramming this thing through that they are forcing the vote, and having Sherrod Brown fly back from his mother's wake, just to vote, then he has to fly back for the funeral, which is tomorrow. God forbid they put off voting on this until next week or later, since f&$king Pelosi is going away on a trip, so they have to get it done before she leaves. Nothing would make me happier right now than for one or two of the spineless Republican Senators to grow a spine and vote against it, thereby killing it, right when it's expected to pass. For one, I'm 100% opposed to it anyway, for another thing, it would be a great slap in the face, when they keep trying to cram it through before everything is public.

They voted unanimously to have the full text posted for at least 48 hours before the final votes were taken, but it was only released overnight, and the House vote was forced this afternoon. The bill is 1071 pages, and not one Republican got to see it before this morning. On that principle alone none of them should support it, because they have no idea what the f&$k they are supporting.

ASHEVILLE, N.C. (AP) -- North Carolina Rep. Heath Shuler is one of only seven Democratic lawmakers who broke from party leadership to oppose the economic stimulus package.

The House approved President Barack Obama's $787 billion plan on Friday. No Republicans voted for the measure.

Shuler said in a statement that he would prefer a stimulus plan that focuses more on infrastructure and other investments that have an immediate economic impact. The conservative Democrat from western North Carolina also said he was disappointed that House leadership would rush a vote on the bill without giving members time to fully review it.

The 1,071-page measure combines $281 billion in tax cuts for individuals and businesses with more than a half-trillion dollars in government spending.

(Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

North Carolina Rep. Heath Shuler

UNDATED (AP) -- The Tennessee delegation in the U.S. House voted along party lines Friday when the House passed a $787 billion economic stimulus bill.

The five Democrats
1 Steve Cohen
2 Jim Cooper
3 Lincoln Davis
4 Bart Gordon
5 John Tanner---voted for it.

Republicans
1 Marsha Blackburn
2 Jimmy Duncan
3 Phil Roe
4 Zach Wamp were against.

(Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

http://www.volunteertv.com/home/headlines/39572852.html

I thought it was 9 Democrats opposed, but it was 7.

Shuler hit the nail on the head why it should have been defeated today. Of course it's rediculous to pass something that was rushed through, with zero time to read and understand it before having to vote on it. Everyone should have voted against it on that principle alone. However, Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are strong-arming everyone. Not just the Republicans, but also members of their own party. I have no doubt anyone who voiced an objection to voting based on lack of time got reamed by those three, and probably some kind of threat.

Props to the following Democrats for having the balls to stand up against their own party when they know it's wrong. I wonder how many of their collegues are going along unwillingly.

Bobby Bright
Peter DeFazio
Parker Griffith
Walt Minnick
Collin Peterson
Heath Shuler
Gene Taylor


Fail to Daniel Lipinski for casting the Obama-style vote of "present". Why bother showing up?

And a quote from Pelosi in the New York Times:

Quote:

"After all the debate, this legislation can be summed up in one word: Pork," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California said. "The American people need action and they need action now."

Fixed for truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, February 13, 2009 4:18 PM

"The FACTS are always subject to CHANGE once the TRUTH is applied"
"In the entire history of man the only stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked"

Despite stimulus, state still expected to run out of unemployment funds

http://www.wate.com/global/story.asp?s=9853768

Quote:

The state's unemployment rate is now at 7.9 percent, above the national average of 7.2 percent.

okay...

Quote:

Under the stimulus package, about 5 million Americans will get an extra $25 tacked on to their weekly unemployment checks and they'll receive the checks for about seven weeks longer than usual.

okay...

Quote:

Under the stimulus package, about 5 million Americans will get an extra $25 tacked on to their weekly unemployment checks and they'll receive the checks for about seven weeks longer than usual.

On Monday, economists at the University of Tennessee say the extra cash for the unemployed will help stimulate the economy because it will lead to more spending.

However, they say the stimulus package doesn't address the state's unemployment fund, which is in a dire situation.

Economists are predicting that by early 2010, Tennessee will run completely out of money to help the unemployed.

Hopefully the state will recover before 2010 if not, then I don't know what the hell we are going to do.

Quote:

President Obama says he's hoping the stimulus package will create and save up to 3.5 million jobs.

But economists wonder if that estimate is too positive. "I have no idea where they got that number, but it certainly will save some jobs. Some people, for example, state employees, local government employees who would have lost their jobs would be able to retain them," explains University of Tennessee economics professor Bill Fox.

if Obama says he's hoping the stimulus package will create jobs and save up to 3.5 million jobs, I hope is not talking about stupid government jobs!!!
So what if they're just stupid government jobs? like what the TN professor said?
They will all get fired when a need republican president gets elected in 2012

This stimulus is not going to create even a million jobs. It will probably save, short term a lot of government jobs, maybe a million, but when the economy doesn't recover, and the unemployment rate is still around 10% (expect that it will be higher than that before the end of this year), the tax revenue will simply not be enough to continue to pay those governement employees. It won't take the next president to cut them in 2012.

Statistics have proven, time and time again, that lowering taxes actually increases the tax revenue, because of it's stimulative effect. Long term job creation has to happen in the private sector. Even Obama said that in one of his town hall meetings trying to sell the people on his stimulus package.

What happened to the capital gains tax cuts for small business, and lowering corporate taxes for companies who invest and create jobs in the US, in Obama's plan? (that is still posted on his campaign website, www.barackobama.com) Had he done that, you would have seen the stock markets start growing again, and companies start hiring again, and it would happen quickly. As I said before, he was elected based on repeated promises for tax cuts during the debates, but now is talking about how tax cuts are "failed policies of the last 8 years", and that Americans voted against tax cuts in November. This bill has been crammed through, with no public transparency (as he promised), and it is going to do nothing for the economy, but will do everything to expand the control government has over our lives.

Many economists have said that by the end of 2010, when the economy is still lame, people are going to be expecting another stimulus plan. All I can say is it better not have anything in it like this one. Being a mid-term election year, I will not be surprized to see it issue a bunch of checks right around October, so they can talk about what they did for us, and why we need to re-elect them to congress.

Quiklilcav wrote:lowering corporate taxes for companies who invest and create jobs in the US

No shiz. This one one of the biggest stances he had going for him IMO, and he really pushed it too.




fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster

***BREAKING NEWS*** notec's steps to a brighter American future:
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=36&i=58477&t=58099#58477

*Government jobs*


No dice.

Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

I have a government job And I'd really appreciate it if the job I'm being offered is still available come July




fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster

***BREAKING NEWS*** notec's steps to a brighter American future:
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=36&i=58477&t=58099#58477

Rick Santelli FTW!

Sorry to chime in late without reading the whole thread, but I don't understand why it's so hard to see that the most important thing is putting cash back in the hands of the public so they can put it in the economy. I think that it would have been interesting if the government did this in the form of vouchers that the public could only use for certain things like buying or paying the mortgages on houses/cars, investing in corporations that create that most jobs in the U.S., etc. And to top it off, make them lose their value after say 2 or 3 years. In turn the receievers of the vouchers exchange them for cash with the government. Then they can keep track of how much of the money given to the public was actually spent. This method would put money in the hands of everyday people, but it would force them to spend it, as it would only have cash value in certain areas and would have no real purpose of putting in a savings bond.

OHV notec wrote:I have a government job And I'd really appreciate it if the job I'm being offered is still available come July

STATE.


This is OK, as it is inline with the 10 Amendment.

Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

deuce_coupe_cavy wrote:putting cash back in the hands of the public so they can put it in the economy.

He is not putting cash in the hands of the public.


The problem is:
Spending 700 billion dollars and putting the cash in the hands of who he thinks or feels needs it more+

Giving bank money knowing that the banks got us in to this mess and knowing that they will keep it and not give it to the people because the people are losing their jobs, not making their loan payments on time and causing their credit score to get lower and not get approved for the loan.

I think,
If Obama just gives us 20,000.00 dollars each and we will spend it however we want, I call it even

BUT!!

that's income distribution. or distribution of wealth, many people are against that too.

spoiler wrote:

deuce_coupe_cavy wrote:putting cash back in the hands of the public so they can put it in the economy.

He is not putting cash in the hands of the public.


The problem is:
Spending 700 billion dollars and putting the cash in the hands of who he thinks or feels needs it more+

Giving bank money knowing that the banks got us in to this mess and knowing that they will keep it and not give it to the people because the people are losing their jobs, not making their loan payments on time and causing their credit score to get lower and not get approved for the loan.

I think,
If Obama just gives us 20,000.00 dollars each and we will spend it however we want, I call it even

BUT!!

that's income distribution. or distribution of wealth, many people are against that too.

^
i just have one comment on the bank issue, i do not necessarily support the bank bail out however, i see the reasoning behind it coming from an econ finance background....if the banks fail, everybody goes down the hole with it......

the whole 263,24326,3,62262. billion dollars is bad bad bad

people are goinna go under a lot faster than any bank
people need a job and good credit to get a loan. if People are losing both, how's that going to help the people?

sorry sir, you lost your job, therefor, you're not approved.

spoiler wrote:people are goinna go under a lot faster than any bank
people need a job and good credit to get a loan. if People are losing both, how's that going to help the people?

sorry sir, you lost your job, therefor, you're not approved.

banks fail = everybody fails, ie: employers, stockmarket, joe schmo
what do you want the banks to do, lend out money and not expect to be paid back?

sorry for the tangent off the original thread...
plus, its 5 a..m. i've been up all night, hopefully this makes sense

.

I've been thinking...

How the hell could the whole economic world collapse because a lot of people didn't pay their morgages in the US? Yeah, yeah... I get that when the US gets a cold everyone sneezes, but this doesn't make that much sense of you look at it from the perspective that entire countries are on the verge of bankruptcy because of some "Ooooo..." bad credit in the United-States. Yes, it would have some repercussions, but come on now... this is a financial meltdown. A damn near apocalypse.

It may make sense to you guys because you live in the US and by extension sometimes forget that the whole world doesn't have to follow your lead (Not pointing fingers btw, everyone does that), but I who lives outside of your country can't quite grasp how the failing of banks in the US means the failing of banks abroad. Yes, there's a lot of debtors incest and a lot of wires are intercrossed, but that's why we have different money systems. To prevent one country's inflation/deflation from affection ours.

What's scary is that this is pure Bushian BS and every liberal media outlet has swallowed it whole and repeated verbatim without question because the Church of Saint Obama said so. Yet, why is no one trying to figure out WHY the system failed. Even if you believe that it's bad loans wouldn't you doublecheck? Wouldn't you look deeper into the mess and try and figure out the specific mechanism for the failure?

I'm not surprised by the starstruck liberal media, but what about the Conservative a**holes? Where's their uncomfortable questions. I hear a lot of flack about the Stimulus package but not a peep, not a word about why all this happened? It's as if no one is interested in finding out why all our collective ass3s are sore. There's been name calling and blame throwing, but it's all guesses and wild accusations. Look, when money markets collapse there's a paper trail SOMEWHERE. Basically you look at what failed and go back from there. It's not the quest for the holy grail here.

I don't know about you guys but it worries me that no one asks questions like this, because it means that anyone with any power to ask has been bought off or just doesn't give a damn.

Ive heard, from people that live out side the US, that starting 4 or so years ago, most of the "old money" here in the states saw the banks lending practices go down the @!#$er, so they in turn took all there money out and invested it in tangibles in other country....

in the late 20's the world econ went down after the US to....

as to how this makes the world go down also, IDN. but i don't believe it is "BAD"

Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

I bet if we cut all useless government spending, cut taxes accordingly, and got some skilled people in the work force building and exporting, the economy would be just fine. Too bad all the jobs are in China, the government is full of faggots who need to die, and every generation is more dumb than the one before. The Revolution people speak of needs to happen. Hopefully it's one of knowledge and pressure on the government to start actually doing their jobs, and not one of a bloody massacre... But either way, I'll sure as hell move from Canada to fight for what your country is suppose to stand for. That would be the place I want to live.

wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good.

LOL