dam u guys talk a lot!!!

I think the Earth is some kind of higher powered beings idea of a joke on all us lowly humans...

The earth is like a Human farm where we are raised and stocked by aliens like some cattle and sometimes they come down here and abduct us back to the home planet to do whatever they make us do, and they know that eventually we are going to destroy ourselves

REALLY what is the point OF ARGUING ABOUT SOMETHING WE ARE NEVER GOING TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT IN OUR LIFETIME...YOU CANNOT TELL SOMEBODY THERE IS NO GOD, BUT YOU CAN'T ALSO SAY YOU KNOW THERE IS...WE'LL ALL FIND OUT AFTER WE DIE <br>


THIS FLOWER GOT THORNS

cuz arguing is the meaning of life. without it, seriously what would we do, get along? psshh! <br>

Back from the Dead.

Currently enrolled in a couple upper-year philosophy classes.

Particularly, Philosophy of Science and Philosophy of Biology.

While I do not have the time to sift through 37pgs of argument that spans more then 18months, I do have to write quite large and detailed argumentative papers on Darwinism, neo-Darwinism, and the modern Synthesis.

That said, I offer the following resources for those who are truly interesting in researching more on this subject matter. They have helped me understand and properly conceptualize the myrid of problems with evolutionary theory, including its many facets and neo-arguments, as well as its modern day support through such authors as Dawkins and Gould.


Dawkins vs. Gould: Survival of the Fittest
- by Kim Sterelny

Darwin on Trial
- by Phillip E. Johnson

Both the above two books are relatively short reads, 150pgs each, and are remarkably clear and to the point. Sterelny writes in favor of Darwinism, while Johnson is keen on pointing out its many flaws


The Species Problem: Biological Species, Ontology, and the Metaphysics of Biology
- by D. Stamos

A New Darwinism?
- by Tim Flannery

Full House
- by S.J. Gould

Was Darwin Wrong?
- by D. Quammen


While I am sure many of you are not academics by any stretch of the word, yet alone read any thing other then People, a handful will appreciate the above resources and will take the time to further research such an important issue that has been left to movies, fiction, and pseudo-science to butcher for so long.





Toronto Street Racing | J-Body club of Ontario | J-Body Tech Library
Equality is a Prescription, Not a Description. Learn the Difference, Newbs.

well the bible says that god created the universe, fish in the sea, birds, humans all that stuff. well if god created humans then god isnt that old and earth must have been around before he has, but then again it doesnt give a time period of when he created each creature on earth. if creationism is correct he could have made the dinosaurs killed them off and decided he wanted to create different creatures.

but if he created humans at the same time he created everything else then the bible is wrong because humans have only been around for certain amount of years. i dunno what u wanna call a human though. homo sapien? homo erectus? homo neanderthalus? homo hablis?. each had its respective time period and it depends which ones count as humans to give an accurate time period for us. and for what i know birds have been around a long time before us, so have fish, also insects and monkeys.

i believe in evolutionism more then i believe in creationism. that is after having 12 years of religion class and one semester of anthropology. it really comes down to if your a strong believer in your religion or not



MY 2003 SUNFIRE

I beleive in both.

These is too much evidence on both sides to dispute that both exist.

Jinxed: I think I read "Was DARWIN WRONG?" in National Geographic a while back... is this the same article? That article in itself explains all of the evidence backing up evolution and refutes common creationist arguments without openly bashing creationism...

I'm glad you said "common creationist arguements" because I don't think there is a way to refute what Athanasius or Thomas Aquinas said about creation. They said it hundreds of years ago, they are church fathers, the same who established works like the Council of Nicea etc.. And yet so many Creationist seem to ignore their arguments.

They put it simply (well, I'm over-simplifying for clarity), that God planted the "seeds of Life" and did not create animals in the form that we see them today. Of course they had to dance around language so that God did in fact create the creatures and whatnot that we see today, but that the form was different in the beginning. They faced the fire if they were to accidently imply that God did not create everything we see (and he did), so they had to be very careful about how they worded things, but essentially they supported the idea of "Created Evolution" or today's wording, "design". God is the archetect who built the system that produced the result we see now.


PAX

It's time to drag this up again.. Some people have some reading to do.

PAX

You know I think it's kind of funny to look at some of the posts that we and other people made on this thread and see how we've grown since then. To see how much more (or less in some cases..lol) we've learned from when this was first started...

Isn't that what information sharing, discussion and debate are all about?

Makes me happy that people are interested at all.

PAX

I totally agree with you...I have based my path for knowledge on the doubts and questions that arise from people that are against Christianity, and doubts of my own as well. I thoroughly enjoy reading your threads Hahahaha, I know you don't necessarily do it for your own accolades, none-the-less, I look forward to your replies.

^^ Ditto ^^ and thanks, it's nice to hear something kind once in a while.

PAX

lets bump this for the sake of new interest...

There is a book here if somebody wanted to arrange it, format it, edit for spelling, organize a bit etc. I think the arguments here are excellent for the most part and anyone truly interested in informed debate should take a crack at reading this thread.

PAX

I'd think a full digestion of this thread would require a LOT of Mountain Dew. At least, if you want to do it one sitting




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

to say the least...

there was actually good arguments from both sides in this one, unlike many of the war forum posts...

To hell with Mountian Dew lol thats not gonna cut it.... Time to break out the Jolt Cola and Pixie Sticks... I have a lot of reading to do damn you people... I just dont knwo what to believe. I highly doubt the creationism theory is correct just isnt possible...

It's not only possible, it's plausible. That's why there's 37 pages of debate, rather mostly debate, about the topic.

You have a lot of reading to do brother.

PAX

Alot of good points and I only read this page and the very 1st page. But I will say this. I was raised Catholic until I was 18. After that I really didnt go to church anymore becuz it was the same readings over and over and over every year. There has to be something out their after death I mean I hope we just dont lay in thye ground inside a casket just starting at pitch black, Im just not sure what. I mean maybe our souls do live forever, that I can understand, but something, say for instance, God always being, thats a hard one to comprehend. It just seems unnatural for something not to have a beginning. Im not sure what I believe in but Id lean toward evolution more myself.

I remeber once in grade school we did this thing where the teacher told a short story to a student, the student then whispered it to another student. This went on for about 25 students. When the last student finished the teacher asked him/her to share what he/her had just heard. Their story differed greatly from the teachers original story was. This sounds like the Bible to me. How can something being translated over so many languages and over 2000 years even be remotely close to what actually happened before and after Christ?

Thats the problem with religions, every religion believes they are right. How can there be all these gods or sacred beings if they are supposedly the right one?

You need to read more of the thread. It explains things like the fact that every authorized version of the Bible was translated from the original scrolls (when available) and very, very early writings. It is not translated from one version to another. It also explains the the translations are tested to ensure the meaning has not changed. It involves having the same pieces translated by many hundreds of monks, then the translations are compaired. Only those pieces whose meaning remain unchanged are included in the Bible.

There is much much more in the thread as well. The argument for first cause is well explained. You do have to dig further into the debate before you get to the real meat though.

PAX

Z2FLIP4 wrote:Alot of good points and I only read this page and the very 1st page. But I will say this. I was raised Catholic until I was 18. After that I really didnt go to church anymore becuz it was the same readings over and over and over every year. There has to be something out their after death I mean I hope we just dont lay in thye ground inside a casket just starting at pitch black, Im just not sure what.

Speaking strictly scientifically, you wouldn't stare for very long after the vitreous in your eyeballs oozed out.

That'll go well with your morning coffee.

Quote:

I mean maybe our souls do live forever, that I can understand, but something, say for instance, God always being, thats a hard one to comprehend. It just seems unnatural for something not to have a beginning. Im not sure what I believe in but Id lean toward evolution more myself.

You're assuming that you actually have a soul, and that there is a God (or Gods... or a guy that was born from a Jasmine flower to full birth). I don't know for certain personally, and I'm not going to speculate. I will live my life to my own standards, and that includes helping others when I can. I don't know about Prayer, but maybe there's something to it.

Quote:

I remeber once in grade school we did this thing where the teacher told a short story to a student, the student then whispered it to another student. This went on for about 25 students. When the last student finished the teacher asked him/her to share what he/her had just heard. Their story differed greatly from the teachers original story was. This sounds like the Bible to me. How can something being translated over so many languages and over 2000 years even be remotely close to what actually happened before and after Christ?

It's called "telephone"

And that's why I bring up the Council of Nicea, and the fact that there is always something lost in the translation, there can never be a 100% fidelity to the original. The original ideas can be retained, certainly, but the eloquence is lost. Think about reading Shakespeare in Japanese, you get the gist, but it's like looking at a photograph of a flower versus looking at the real McCoy, no flower smell on the Photograph, you can't tell what it feels like, but you know what it is, more or less.

Quote:

Thats the problem with religions, every religion believes they are right. How can there be all these gods or sacred beings if they are supposedly the right one?

That, my friend, is the leap of faith.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Z2FLIP4 wrote:

Thats the problem with religions, every religion believes they are right. How can there be all these gods or sacred beings if they are supposedly the right one?

Ever considered that they might all be the same one? Different fingers of the same hand.


PAX

Hahahaha: That's something that some religious leaders need to figure out.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

I guess there is no "true" religion...what makes it true is that 1 person chooses to have their religion as the right one...for example, budah, mormons, christians, catholics..and all that stuff...
there is one religion that things the cow is a holy animal and such...i personally dont agree with that but that is what they choose to belive...so be it...im not justified to judge someone elses thoughts...its the same thing as gay, homofobic and other determinations of sexual acts...thats their own personal opinion to be like that...either for being increadebly smart or increadebly stupid...are they hurting me? not really...so i dont mind that there are people like that around me....
I have my own thoughts and the religion that i choose is the right one for me. Im not gonna preach to anyone because thats not my style...but if someone is willing to listen i will share...
alot of people want to be demi gods by pushing their religion into other people...what they dont realize is that they judging people for what their belief is...and with ALL religions that is something wrong...

at the end, we choose what we want to belive...from satan being the most ugly beast in the world or he was the most beautifull angel in the heavens...but since he wanted to be god, he was punished for that...and now you can consider him like the god of evil.

500 years ago there was a man that thought that the earth was flat and people belived him...now one man said that the earth is round....i personally dont think its round...i think its oval...but thats my opinion...

we push people to do what we want...for an illusion of power that we never had. because of choice.

"I curse your future children. They will be born naked" j. hendrix

"I'm gonna put a curse on you and all your kids will be born completely naked."

Quote:

500 years ago there was a man that thought that the earth was flat and people belived him...now one man said that the earth is round....i personally dont think its round...i think its oval...but thats my opinion...

actually an oblate spheroid, but I get it