I have a '99 2.4. As some of you might have noticed, I've had a valve go out on me on the first cylinder, blah blah blah so I'm looking into what it will cost to fix vs. the biggest bang for the buck (sort of). I was originally going to go with the 2.4 head + oversize valves but the cost of machining makes that prohibitive versus doing the 086 swap. So I have a few questions regarding the swap.
I don't have an EGR so I'm thinking I might have a 9.7 compression ratio. Correct?
I've done the math and my compression would be 11.5 if I did the 086 swap. Is that right?
What do you guys think the thickest head gasket is that I can get for the head, and what will the knock sensor do with the factory ECU? Will I run into bad knock issues, and go into limp mode?
I've been searching around and I haven't come up with anything regarding answers to these questions.
Thanks much!
-Matt
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For my next trick, I'll turn your momma out.
hmmm, i would assume HPT would fix any and all issues (if any) with the knock sensor issue your referring to...
hahaha I knew someone was going to say that...
What if say.. I didn't have money for HPT right now.. What problems might I encounter with the stock ECU?
-Matt
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For my next trick, I'll turn your momma out.
no way to really tell without actually doing it, or finding an 'expert' that has done it
you could always send the VCM to shifted to tune it, thats only $170.... i would assume you could afford such a task
That $170, would be well spent..
For sure.
I see there's some pretty massive threads regarding the swap.. But umm.. Am I right in my assumptions above regarding the compression ratio and all that?
-Matt
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For my next trick, I'll turn your momma out.
i have done it.. the older 2.4's (96) will run on the stock ecm, but i would not suggest running WOT pulls with it like that..i stayed cruising speeds no more than 40% throttle with no problems.. save up for HPt before you do it and get it tuned right..
Getting the HPT does sound like a good idea.. There's no substitution for the proper way to do something..
Can anyone confirm or deny my compression ratio, and the final compression with the 086 head? Are there ways of overcoming some of that with a head gasket, and if so, which one?
-Matt
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For my next trick, I'll turn your momma out.
CR with that would be around 11-11.5
you cna lower it with a thicker gasket. how thick i dont know
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
Any thicker MLS 2.3L headgasket will work. Problem is, I think there is but one company that makes a thicker head gasket for quads (I'm pretty sure cometic doesn't). I can't ever remember the name of it though.
WhitePhatt wrote:Getting the HPT does sound like a good idea.. There's no substitution for the proper way to do something..
Can anyone confirm or deny my compression ratio, and the final compression with the 086 head? Are there ways of overcoming some of that with a head gasket, and if so, which one?
-Matt
If you did:
(Vol of Head + Vol of Gasket + Vol of displacement) / (Vol of Head + Vol of Gasket)
...then your estimate would be right. I don't feel like doing the math again right now, but the 11.5 is close, if not the same, as what I had gotten in the past.
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
ok, awesome.
Thanks for the info
Has anyone put together a parts list? (I think I remember seeing one in my trolling through the 086 head swap posts but don't remember where it was at).
1. Remanufactured/Refurb 086 Head
2. Head Gasket
3. Grinding on head to match the gasket (or something like that)
4. 2.3 Exhaust manifold
5. ECU Flash or HPT
Correct?
I don't need to swap any timing components, chains, gears, pulleys, cams, cam towers, cam covers, etc..
Why isn't all this information a formal sticky!
-Matt
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For my next trick, I'll turn your momma out.
WhitePhatt wrote:Why isn't all this information a formal sticky!
lol cuz its the 'secret head swap'
hahaha I wish.. I did actually search for that though. ..You know you're hard up for information when you search for something you're pretty sure doesn't exist under that name.
-Matt
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For my next trick, I'll turn your momma out.
You don't grind the head because from what i understand you use the 2.3L head gasket, I believe you need to make adjustments to the block. Your cr will be 11.25:1 scr.
- Paul
From what I have gathered all you "need" to make it run is:
086 head
You need to make 2 or 3 coolant passages bigger on the head match the block
Use the 2.3 head gasket, and match the above passages to the head/block
Some sort of tunning
From what I have read, which is most of what is on this site, thats all you need to do to make it "work", in addition to the actual parts.
PSN ID: Phatchance249
So it's pretty straight forward.. As best I can tell.. Thanks for the additional Information.
If anyone has any other words of wisdom to add, please do..
-Matt
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9.5:1 with 086 = 11.4:1
9.7:1 with 086 = 11.6-11.7
I've checked it so many times.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
You match the coolant passages to the gasket. I also used my old 2.4L head for reference when I did it. This is a pic I had made of the modification to my head.
****NOTE*****
DO NOT DRILL THE TOP HOLE AS I DID!!!!! This is an oil passage on the 2.4L head whereas it is a water pasage for the 086 head. It took 9 gallons of coolant eventually flowing out of the pcv breather to figure that one out.
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
Oh wow! That's awesome Brian!
w00t!
I think I saw that buried amongst some other 086 head post.
So, I have to drill those small holes then?
-Matt
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yup, match your 2.3l head with a 2.4l gasket, then match the 2.3 gasket to a 2.4l one, then install with 2.3 gasket!
you will also need the intake manifold...
Magik1109 wrote:yup, match your 2.3l head with a 2.4l gasket, then match the 2.3 gasket to a 2.4l one, then install with 2.3 gasket!
you will also need the intake manifold...
and exhaust manifold
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
WhitePhatt wrote:ok, awesome.
Thanks for the info
Has anyone put together a parts list? (I think I remember seeing one in my trolling through the 086 head swap posts but don't remember where it was at).
1. Remanufactured/Refurb 086 Head
2. Head Gasket
3. Grinding on head to match the gasket (or something like that)
4. 2.3 Exhaust manifold
5. ECU Flash or HPT
Correct?
I don't need to swap any timing components, chains, gears, pulleys, cams, cam towers, cam covers, etc..
Why isn't all this information a formal sticky!
-Matt
Magik1109 wrote:yup, match your 2.3l head with a 2.4l gasket, then match the 2.3 gasket to a 2.4l one, then install with 2.3 gasket!
you will also need the intake manifold...
I'm an idiot...sorry
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"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
hahaha np
I have a Pacesetter header on my 2.4 currently, so I might see if it's feasible to just bandsaw off the plate from both my Pacesetter, and a stock 2.3 exhaust manifold and weld up the tubes to the stock plate. As far as I know it's never been done before..
I do have a polished HO manifold with the adapter for the 2.4 already. So when I do the 086 swap I'll have that as extra
-Matt
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the HO exhuast manifold is cast iron, you cant simply just "weld" on the flange to a steel header. you'll need to take the exhuast manifold gasket somewhere that does flanges and have them copy it using steel, then you can weld IT to the header.
ahhh ... ok, that makes sense.. I'm not really a welder so that hadn't actually occurred to me that I couldn't just weld cast iron to steel. I could probably pull off the fabrication of the flange myself, cause it would be expensive to have a fabricator do it wouldn't it?
-Matt
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No need to have a flange made. 87-90 had the header style exhaust manifold witch is not cast. It can be welded. How do you think we can get cheap flanges
BUT I would not go with a modify pacesetter. I would keep a stock Ho manifold.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
