Hey there all, it turns out that I happen to blow the engine in my car and am now looking for a new one. I have come across a Cobalt SS engine, that I think would be nice to put in. Would this fit do you think? I don't think there should be a problem as Cavalier and Coblat are similar run offs, but I aint good at the mechanical side of things. Much help needed, so inform me please, haha. Thank's and take care out there!
Dallas (Cavikid99)
first off, if ur not mechanically inclined, u shouldnt even be thinking about such a thing.
whsy that? i wont put it in myself, ill get somone else to do all that S***, i just wanna know if you think it'll fit (the engine). like im only 18 so, im new to this jbody deal, ive had the car for about months (only drving it about 4, casue of winter). so i need some guidence...
well the chevy cobalt ss motor is a 2.0 liter motor unlike the one that was in the last gen of cavys which is the 2.2 but sinces its smaller theoretically it should fit with custom mounts
If your going have some one else doing the swap for you talk about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ... Also iam only 17.
But if you have the money anything is possible.
no body has done this yet. and i dont think anyone will.
for the amount of time, and money youd be doing this sort of thing. you can swap in a 2.2 ecotec and put a turbo on that probaly for less
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
If your only question is will it fit...yes.
Is it a ideal swap into your car? No.
There is alot more that goes into the swap than the engine itself.
Alright thnx for your help. I still may go and put in a 2.4 engine (like mine now) and throw on a turbo. Cause you are all right, the cost is a huge issue, and it goes in tomorrow morning to the shop to get the engine yanked out so, i have a bit of time to look around. i found some turbos on ebay for about 1200 cdn, and i was thinkin that on top of the 2.4 should be good enough.
Your car will have to be completely rewired front to back...it would be a nightmare to be honest. It will fit in the engine bay without any issues at all but like I said the wiring would be a nightmare.
Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
Lots of lame information in here...
I wouldn't suggest you doing this swap since you're not mechanically inclined, nor have the money but if anyone cares to know...
I've been thinking of the same swap. No reason the LSJ wouldn't bolt into the Jbody, since the L61 and the LSJ are almost identical structure wise. The LSJ has a smaller stroke, making it stable at higher RPM, and also comes with piston squirters that spray the bottom of the pistons with oil to help keep them cool and resist detonation. Also, the head on the LSJ is sand cast, and has structural reinforcements to prevent the outward sections of the number 1 and number 4 cylinders blowing the headgasket out under high boost.
The stage is set since the LSJ is basically a revised and strengthened L61.
there's two variables however:
1) electronics. I think you would have to use the L61 ignition module, and the L61 wiring harness with some of the LSJ sensors. the LSJ is a cobalt only engine, and their electrical system is different than in the 3rd gen 2nd phase(00-02) and 3rd phase(03-05) jbody. So if you use the L61 fuel rail, ignition module, and wirirng harness the car won't know any different and won't care what engine is working.. it'll think its an L61.
2) clutch and flywheel. I know the LSJ has an 8 bolt flywheel while the L61 has a 6 bolt. So using a jbody flywheel is out of the question. I'm hoping for the Jbody clutch to bolt up to the LSJ flywheel if not, I'm going to have to try and get a custom flywheel made to fit the LSJ crank but accept jbody clutches. Unless the Cobalt SS clutch works with the Jbody transmission.. this is the only detail I'm a bit worried about. and will take some experimentation
I wouldn't doubt if someone swaps an LSJ into a Jbody soon I know its been attempted before.. unsure if it succeded or not.
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) - BPU++ wrote:Lots of lame information in here...
Yes!! Shut everyone up again.
It only takes time, money and some thought. You DON'T need the permission of anyone here to do it. If its never been done before, how the hell is anyone here going to tell you how to do it? THEY CAN'T, so like PJ said, you get lame info.
I'm just glad there are some people here who have enough passion and motivation to try new things. Otherwise this platform would be at a dead end for sure.
btw raven is right, if the car is earlier than a 2000 you have to rewire the whole thing to 00+ spec
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You DON'T need the permission of anyone here to do it. If its never been done before, how the hell is anyone here going to tell you how to do it? THEY CAN'T, so like PJ said, you get lame info.
its the recurring theme to this place. when you have a wild idea (most of them aren't even that wild), just do it.
Then show it off asking anything out of the norm around here is usually met with a lot of 'boo, hiss'.
I'm picking up my LSJ next week so I guess we'll see what happens
but pj, what about those itb's? are they in or are you still custom fitting them? update, update!!!
^^^ I bet PJ is going to swap in the lsj into his cavalier, then turbo it
i hate to thread jack but..
the ITBs are a good idea, however for such a low redline (7500ish, possibly 8000rpm) the runner length would have to be so long, they would stick out beyond the hood of the car. In order to bring the runner length down, RPM has to go up.. and to safely do that I need forged internals... I'm not cracking open the motor unless I'm going boost.
Also, the hayabusa 1300cc motorcycle throttle bodies are 44mm at the mouth and taper to 40mm or so by the rear.. which is fine and dandy, but I'd almost be willing to bet this is too small for our engines. Most ITB kits sold by TWM induction or other ITB companies have 50mm throttle bodies and larger.
Basically, for all the trouble, unless its going on to a higher revving motor, it isn't really worth it. Its a great idea, but I'd like to keep my engine under the hood, and having the throttles exposed pretty far beyond the hood wouldn't be too cool on the street or parking it somewheres.
I may do up another all motor 2.2 in the future on my daily (looking for an 03-05 jbody base model 5 speed) but for now the skwirl's going big time boost.
yeah there is a lot of lame infomation in this thread.
the dude came on here asking for help/info on this swap. but nobody has done this yet at least not on JBO. so any kind of info or help or an idea on this swap, most of it is just guess work. so until someone does this swap, nobody will know.
and if he wants an LSJ, just get a cobalt SS
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
so the skwirl is going lsj pj? or are you boosting with what you got right now? the skwirl has been my ecotec god and im definatly looking forward to this!
the engineering advantages of the LSJ make it worth while to look into some sort of hybrid of the L61 and the LSJ. I know suncavi toyed with the LSJ head.. I was thinking of putting the LSJ block under the L61 patriot head
then there's also just an outright swap to the 2.0.. it all depends on what difficulties lie ahead.. I know the LSJ head doesn't have a power steering provision, so that would have to be addressed.
But I would say there's a 70% chance that my first turbo engine will be an LSJ block with forged rods from JBP, wiseco pistons with ceramic coated crowns in a pretty low compression ratio, and a header style turbo manifold with a GT35R/GT30R hybrid ball bearing turbo. Unsure of the boost I'll be pushing, or what I'm doing about fuel.. but I want to run an external aeromotive A1000 fuel pump but utilize the stock fuel tank for the sake of ease.. details are coming to light as I go since all the parts depend on one another.
I'm trying to get a good match together while still having room to grow without too much trouble...
I've already said too much tho..
/thread_jacking
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) - BPU++ wrote:Lots of lame information in here...
1) electronics. I think you would have to use the L61 ignition module, and the L61 wiring harness with some of the LSJ sensors. the LSJ is a cobalt only engine, and their electrical system is different than in the 3rd gen 2nd phase(00-02) and 3rd phase(03-05) jbody. So if you use the L61 fuel rail, ignition module, and wirirng harness the car won't know any different and won't care what engine is working.. it'll think its an L61.
The first line is correct.
Everything else is wrong except the part about cobalt wiring being different/
sig not found
protomec wrote:DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) - BPU++ wrote:Lots of lame information in here...
1) electronics. I think you would have to use the L61 ignition module, and the L61 wiring harness with some of the LSJ sensors. the LSJ is a cobalt only engine, and their electrical system is different than in the 3rd gen 2nd phase(00-02) and 3rd phase(03-05) jbody. So if you use the L61 fuel rail, ignition module, and wirirng harness the car won't know any different and won't care what engine is working.. it'll think its an L61.
The first line is correct.
Everything else is wrong except the part about cobalt wiring being different/
I'm guessing you have tried this, or worked with someone who has, because otherwise how would you know??
Since PJ ran 14.0 all motor, I have read all his posts and not found anything to be bull@!#$, which is a lot more than you can say for some of the so called "experts" here. Here's how it works, you have an idea, you try it, and it works, or it doesn't work. PJ shares these experiences after he has researched and done the work.
If you have a legit experience with the LSJ swap, please share useful details instead of just slinging @!#$.
You should all be so lucky that there are people who are still willing to put the time and moeny into this platform when the main source of info is a forum like this one...
in all seriousness proto, if you have insight let me know
here's my reasonings:
cobalt vs jbody electrical:
jbody ecu has 2 plugs, cobalt ecu has 3 plugs. the wiring harness may work with the jbody, but the ecu (I would imagine) would not like talking to the jbody BCM. if running the cobalt ecu in a jbody is possible, then this opens up a whole new possibility for swaps. I doubt the interface plug between the engine harness and the body harness is compatible between the cobalt and the Jbody.
LSJ has a 4 coil, coil-on-plug ignition, while the L61 uses a waste-spark 2 coil setup (if I remember correctly). Therefore I don't think the LSJ ignition would work on the L61 ecu
cobalt fuel system
LSJ is returnless if I remember correctly and the L61 isn't. I don't feel like converting to returnless fuel system. L61 fuel rail should bolt right up
clutch/ flywheel
LSJ flywheel is 8 bolts. i've seen it, and touched it. the L61 flywheel is 6 bolts.. i've seen it and touched it. How this is wrong, I'm not sure but I know for a fact a jbody flywheel will not bolt to the LSJ crank. I don't know about the clutch compatibilities yet since I don't have my LSJ in the garage yet for comparison so that will have to be experimented with.
power steering
pretty sure the LSJ head doesn't have the keyway, nor the provision for the power steering pump from the jbody. so this poses a problem
the transmission will bolt right up, the only question is the splines on the input shaft and the aforementioned clutch/ flywheel compatibility.
like I said, if you have insight with first hand experience, please enlighten me. If all you have to offer is hear-say don't waste my time. The only thing I'm relying on at this point is hands on trial and error so we'll find out how it all works soon enough.
unsupported nay-say is just that. And LSJ block under an L61 head swap is kids play.
a straight out LSJ swap would be more difficult because of the power steering and cam position sensor... I'm not sure of the other problems because I've never tried it yet but everything should bolt right in with a bit of finesse and smarts.
I doubt it would be as difficult as everyone thinks it is/ would be
protomec wrote:Everything else is wrong except the part about cobalt wiring being different/
this ^^ was the information going around the .org about 6-8 months ago. and at that time it wasnt supported with any actual hands on information. just the common JBO speculation. if u have any kind of experience with this situation, give facts, because there are a lotta people here who would be very interested to know, good news or bad. if your just screaming
(not saying you are or arent, because i honestly dont know) then dont, its not worth anyone's time.
PJ good luck with all this man, you definately have the know how to do this and my feeling is that you're gonna surprise a lotta pepople when you do. hope to read all about it too
Good lord theres alot of misinformation in this thead
The motor size is not any different as the block is exactly the same whether it be 2.0/2.2/2.4 ecotecs, you can use existing aftermarket motor mounts with it
The flywheel and clutch is an issue but you may be able to use cobalt ss parts in this reguard
You cant use a jbody pcm to run it, your options are simple, either get a cobalt or redline pcm or get
THISand you can run the factory LSJ coil on plug ignition system, it wires up similar to megasquirt
As for head swapping thats far more trouble than its worth, modify what your using, theres no benefit to hybriding, while the LSJ does have some nifty engineering advances its really not worth going through all the extra effort getting it to work, you can modify a 2.2 Eco to do as much as you will ever need and its cheaper
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Quote:
I'm guessing you have tried this, or worked with someone who has, because otherwise how would you know??
Since PJ ran 14.0 all motor, I have read all his posts and not found anything to be bull@!#$, which is a lot more than you can say for some of the so called "experts" here. Here's how it works, you have an idea, you try it, and it works, or it doesn't work. PJ shares these experiences after he has researched and done the work.
If you have a legit experience with the LSJ swap, please share useful details instead of just slinging @!#$.
Even if I hadn't tried it I would still know. And seeing that I have built some of the, I guess 'slowest cars' on the org based on the "honor roll", you can pout your faith wherever you want to.
Quote:
in all seriousness proto, if you have insight let me know
The facts:
The engine is the same as any eco so it will bolt in i the place of an eco powered J.
-- but this guy seems to have a 99 2.4 car, best that I can guess.
The cobalt PCM is Drive-by wire. As such it requires many specific inputs before it will even let the engine start. MAP, MAF, TPS, and PPS, at minimum will have to fully function, Also, it will likely require readiness signals from other modules via a CAN communications network before it will let the engine fire. Insanely huge rewiring project if it were attemped.
Swapping J components/sensors on the the LSJ will not completely work either. The LSJ uses a smaller hall effect crank position sensor. The magnetic AC generator crank sensor from the J won't fit in the hole. Even if it did, the J PCM wants to read a 7x signal (7 pulses per rotation/ 7 teeth on the crank wheel). The LSJ has ~100 teeth on its crank wheel (high resolution signal).
The CPC ignition system on the LSJ will not work with the J PCM, The J's waste spark ignition system will not fit directly on the LSJ. Probably only a VC change to make it fit though.
Returnless fuel is no big deal, from a running standpoint the J won't know the difference. you would just need a regulator.
J throttle body wont bolt to the SC or probably any other Cobalt manifold and GM does not sell the adapter as a service part.
Clutch is not a huge issue. Its just a matter of matching up the right components. The trans does not know how many flywheel bolts there are.
Thats all I care to type now.
sig not found
You could put a RB26DETT in then make it a FR then DRIFT IT!!!
All you need is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Ghost ride that whip homeboy!!
