if i were to get the stage 2 JBP cam and then replace my lifters with new stock lifers and get the 1.6.1 rocker arms would that all work correctly? also would i gain enough Hp for the money. guide me in the right direction please

thanks fellas...

wow... nothing against jbp, but they're raping people on their cam charges...



clicky. brand new cams. not regrinds. as for the other stuff, i used to know, i can figure out all your lift specs and everything, but i cant remember the stock max lift before coming in contact with the pistons.



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Rich Grayo Jr. wrote: i cant remember the stock max lift before coming in contact with the pistons.

I was reading old posts the other day and I think I remember reading not to exceed .480 lift. I might be wrong though.

Clay, JBP's cams are over priced regrinds. You can save money and get a cam tailored to you motor, by getting a stock cam from a salvage yard and having it reground by you favorite cam manufacturer (Crane Cams, Comp Cams, Isky Racing Cams, etc...). Our cams use the same lobe profile as the '87+ Small Block Chey hydraulic roller cams, which there are many to work from. Just remember, don't exceed .480 total lift at the valves ( Lobe Lift X Rocker Arm Ratio= Total Lift), the valve springss can not handle any more lift and there currently no cost efficient valve spring replacement.

Rich, I was originally interested in the IPP cams, till I saw they aren't made from billet core, but rather a cast core, which won't hold up under a roller cam. The flat hydraulic cams(pre '94) might be okay, if they hardened the lobes.

damn was hoping someone inally made a decent low cost cam for our cars...



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Rich, the most economical and reliable cam would be a regrind on a stock core. Plenty of choices to work from, since we can use the SBC HR profiles.

Syntar wrote: I was reading old posts the other day and I think I remember reading not to exceed .480 lift. I might be wrong though.

0.480" is the max lift for the 2200's valsprings. You can go higher on the older 2.2Ls, but I wouldn't recommend it, the spring won't handle the higher rpm ranges with that much lift.

i understand the cost effectiveness of a regrind madjack, but after a the rebuild on my car, when i pulled the cam, i found it was a pressed piece, not an actual single machined cam. the replacement i got from northern was an actual solid machined cam, i forget who it was from however... the stock cam may in fact work, but i dont feel right about spending money on a regrind of a tube with pressed lobes.



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IIRC, .480" was the max for the retainer-guide clearance...



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

are you sure JBP cams arent new cams... are you saying that i have to send one in to them? How do i go about getting cam ground from crane?

If JBP has a core charge, then no, they are not new cams. But, after regrinding, it doesn't matter.
You send the cam to Crane with the regrind info (just fill out a cam recommendation card with the info on what characteristics you're looking for out of your motor) and they'll call you to confirm.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

Here's a few links for info mentioned above:

JBP's Cam Core Charge.
Crane's Cam Recommendation Form
Comp Cam's Cam Recommendation Form
Isky Racing Cams Catalog, see page 216 for their cam recommendation form.

holy cow i dont know all the info on the recomendation form.

Bore.. stroke...compression...

You can look all those up in the ny-jbodies.org library



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

OHV notec wrote:You can look all those up in the ny-jbodies.org library

ny-jbodies isnt there anymore...



JBO Stickers! Get yours today!

Rich Grayo Jr. wrote:

OHV notec wrote:You can look all those up in the ny-jbodies.org library

ny-jbodies isnt there anymore...

That sucks. Here you go:

Engine Mechanical Specifications
Application Specifications
Metric English
General Data
Engine Type
L-4
Regular Production Option (RPO) Code LN2 VIN Code 4

Displacement
2.2 L 134 CID
Bore
89 mm 3.5 in
Stroke
88 mm 3.46 in
Compression Ratio
9:1
Firing Order
1-3-4-2
Oil Pressure @ 65°C (150°F)
348 kPa 56 psi @ 3000 RPM
Camshaft
Journal Clearance
0.013-0.089 mm 0.0005-0.0035 in
Journal Diameter
47.453-47.478 mm 1.868-1.869 in
Lobe Lift - Inlet and Exhaust
6.685 mm 0.263 in
Crankshaft
Crankshaft End Play
0.0511-0.1780 mm 0.002-0.007 in
Main Bearing Clearance
0.015-0.047 mm 0.0006-0.0019 in
Main Journal Diameter
63.360-63.384 mm 2.4945-2.4954 in
Main Journal Out Of Round
0.005 mm 0.00019 in
Main Journal Taper
0.005 mm 0.00019 in
Rod Bearing Journal Clearance
0.025-0.079 mm 0.00098-0.0031 in
Rod Bearing Journal Diameter
50.758-50.784 mm 1.9983-1.9994 in
Rod Bearing Journal Out Of Round
0.005 mm 0.00019 in
Rod Bearing Journal Taper
0.005 mm 0.00019 in
Rod Side Clearance
0.10-0.38 mm 0.0039-0.0149 in
Cylinder Bore
Diameter
88.991-89.009 mm 3.5036-3.5043 in
Lubrication System

Oil Capacity Without Filter Change
3.473 L 3.5 qts
Oil Pressure (3000 RPM @ 65°C (150°F)
348 kPa 56 psi min.
Out Of Round Maximum
0.013 mm 0.0005 in
Taper -- Thrust Side Maximum
0.013 mm 0.0005 in
When Changing the Oil Filter, Up to an Additional 0.473 Liter or One Half Quart of Oil May Be Needed. Filter Type or Equivalent
PF-47
Cylinder Head
Cylinder Head Deck Face Overall Maximum Flatness 0.08 mm 0.003 in
Cylinder Head Deck Face Maximum Flatness within any 150 mm (5.92 in) length 0.05 mm 0.002 in
Cylinder Head Deck Face Maximum Flatness within 25 mm (0.984 in) length 0.025 mm 0.001 in
Oil Pump
End Clearance
0.05-0.18 mm 0.002-0.007 in
Gear Diameter - Drive Gear
38.05-38.10 mm 1.498-1.50 in
Gear Diameter - Idler
38.05-38.10 mm 1.498-1.5 in
Gear Lash
0.094-0.195 mm 0.004-0.008 in
Gear Length - Drive Gear
30.45-30.48 mm 1.199-1.20 in
Gear Length - Idler
30.45-30.48 mm 1.199-1.20 in
Gear Pocket Depth
30.36-30.44 mm 1.195-1.198 in
Gear Pocket Diameter
38.18-38.25 mm 1.503-1.506 in
Gear Side Clearance - Drive Gear
0.038-0.102 mm 0.001-0.004 in
Gear Side Clearance - Idler
0.038-0.102 mm 0.001-0.004 in
Oil Pump Drive to Driven Gear Backlash
0.23-0.51 mm 0.0091-0.0201 in
Outer Gerotor Thickness
17.087-17.099 mm 0.6727-0.6731 in
Valve to Bore Clearance
0.038-0.089 mm 0.0015-0.0035 in
Piston
Clearance - 42.7 mm from top of piston

Factory Specification
0.015-0.047 mm 0.00059-0.00185 in
Service Specification
0.055-0.087 mm 0.0022-0.0034 in
Piston Pin
Clearance In Piston
0.0079-0.0155 mm 0.00031-0.00061 in
Diameter
20.3225-20.3251 mm 0.8001-0.8002 in
Interference Fit In Rod
0.034-0.064 mm 0.0013-0.0025 in
Piston Ring Compression
Second Groove Side Clearance
0.04-0.08 mm 0.0016-0.0031 in
Second Ring Gap
0.30-0.45 mm 0.0012-0.0177 in
Top Groove Side Clearance
0.05-0.09 mm 0.0020-0.0035 in
Top Ring Gap
0.25-0.50 mm 0.010-0.020 in
Piston Ring Oil
Gap
0.25-0.76 mm 0.010-0.030 in
Groove Clearance
0.013-0.220 mm 0.0005-0.0087 in
Valve System
Rocker Arm Ratio
-- 1.6
Valve Face Angle
-- 45°
Valve Face Runout
0.038 mm 0.0014 in
Valve Guide Inside Diameter
7.000-7.020 mm 0.275-0.276 in
Valve Head Diameter - Exhaust
44 mm 1.73 in
Valve Head Diameter - Inlet
37 mm 1.45 in
Valve Margin - Exhaust
2.13-1.87 mm 0.083-0.073 in
Valve Margin - Inlet
1.49-1.23 mm 0.058-0.048 in
Valve Overall Length - Exhaust
127 mm 5.00 in
Valve Overall Length - Inlet
134.23 mm 5.28 in
Valve Seat Width - Exhaust
3.51 mm 0.138 in
Valve Seat Width - Inlet
2.80 mm 0.110 in
Valve Springs Free Length
48.7 mm 1.91 in
Valve Springs Load - Closed
361-324 N·m @ 40.64 mm 81.2-72.8 lb @ 1.600 in
Valve Springs Load - Open
957-893 N·m @ 29.85 mm 215-201 lb @ 1.175 in
Valve Stem to Guide Clearance - Exhaust
0.035-0.076 mm 0.0014-0.0029 in
Valve Stem to Guide Clearance - Inlet
0.020-0.053 mm 0.0007-0.0020 in
Valve Tip to Retainer Groove Centerline
4.97-5.46 mm 0.195-0.214 in

Fastener Tightening Specifications
Application Specifications
Metric English
Accelerator Cable Mounting Bracket 10 N·m 89 lb in
Accessory Bracket Bolts 50 N·m 37 lb ft
Accessory Drive Belt Idler Pulley 50 N·m 37 lb ft
Camshaft Position Sensor to Block Bolt 10 N·m 89 lb in
Camshaft Rear Cover Bolts 12 N·m 106 lb in
Camshaft Sprocket 130 N·m 96 lb ft
Camshaft Thrust Plate Bolts 12 N·m 106 lb in
Clutch Cover and Pressure Plate Assembly Bolts
First Pass
20 N·m 15 lb ft
Final Pass
45 degrees
Connecting Rod Cap Nuts 52 N·m 38 lb ft
Crankcase Front Cover Bolts 11 N·m 97 lb in
Crankshaft Main Bearing Cap Bolts 95 N·m 70 lb ft
Crankshaft Pulley Hub to Crankshaft Bolts 105 N·m 77 lb ft
Crankshaft Pulley to Hub Bolt 50 N·m 37 lb ft
Crankshaft Sensor Bolt 8 N·m 72 lb in
Cylinder Head Bolts -- Long
First Pass
63 N·m 46 lb ft
Final Pass
90 degrees
Cylinder Head Bolts -- Short
First Pass
58 N·m 43 lb ft
Final Pass
90 degrees
Direct Ignition System Coil Assembly 25 N·m 18 lb ft
Engine Lift Bracket Nut 50 N·m 37 lb ft
Engine Mount Assembly Cage Nuts 45 N·m 33 lb ft
Engine Mount Assembly to Accessory Bracket Bolts
First Pass
60 N·m 44 lb ft
Final Pass
90 degrees
Engine Mount Assembly to Body Nuts 66 N·m 49 lb ft
Engine Mount Strut Bolt
First Pass
100 N·m 74 lb ft
Final Pass
90 degrees
Engine Mount Strut Bracket Bolts (Front) 66 N·m 49 lb ft
Engine Mount Strut Bracket Bolts (Rear) 75 N·m 55 lb ft
Exhaust Manifold Nuts 13 N·m 118 lb in
Flywheel Bolts 75 N·m 55 lb ft
Intake Manifold Bolts 24 N·m 17 lb ft
Intake Manifold Nuts 24 N·m 17 lb ft
Intake Manifold Studs 12 N·m 105 lb in
Knock Sensor 19 N·m 26 lb ft
Lifter Guide 11 N·m 97 lb in
Oil Fill Tube 50 N·m 37 lb ft
Oil Filter 17 N·m 13 lb ft
Oil Filter Adapter 35 N·m 26 lb ft
Oil Gallery Plug (Large) - at Rear of Engine Block 33 N·m 24 lb ft
Oil Gallery Plug (Small ) - at Rear of Engine Block 15 N·m 11 lb ft
Oil Gallery Plugs - at Side of Block above Oil Filter 21 N·m 15 lb ft
Oil Pan 10 N·m 89 lb in
Oil Pressure Sensor/Switch 12 N·m 106 lb in
Oil Pump Cover Bolts 10 N·m 89 lb in
Oil Pump Drive Assembly 25 N·m 18 lb ft
Oil Pump Mounting Bolt 44 N·m 32 lb ft
Oxygen Sensor 42 N·m 31 lb ft
Rocker Arm Bolts 25 N·m 19 lb ft
Rocker Arm Cover Bolts 10 N·m 89 lb in
Serpentine Drive Belt Tensioner Bolt 50 N·m 37 lb ft
Spark Plugs 17 N·m 13 lb ft
Throttle Body to Intake Manifold Bolts 10 N·m 89 lb in
Timing Chain Tensioner Bolts 24 N·m 18 lb ft
Water Jacket Drain Plug 15 N·m 11 lb ft
Water Outlet Pipe 26 N·m 19 lb ft
Water Pump 25 N·m 18 lb ft
Water Pump Inlet 25 N·m 18 lb ft
Water Pump Pulley Bolts 30 N·m 22 lb ft

GM SPO Group Numbers
Application GM SPO Group Number
Automatic Transmission Engine Flywheel 0.666
Camshaft Bearing 0.539
Camshaft Timing Chain 0.724
Connecting Rod 0.603
Connecting Rod Bearing Kit 0.616
Coolant Radiator 1.219
Crankshaft Balancer 0.659
Crankshaft Bearing Kit 0.096
Cylinder Head 0.269
Cylinder Head Gasket 0.289
EGR Valve Gasket 3.68
Engine Block N.S.
Engine Camshaft 0.519
Engine Cooling Thermostat 1.246
Engine Crankshaft 0.646
Engine Cooling Fan 1.055
Engine Front Cover 0.206
Engine Front Cover Gasket 0.207
Exhaust Manifold 3.601
Exhaust Manifold Gasket 3.27
Ignition Coil 2.17
Intake Manifold 3.265
Intake Manifold Gasket N.S.
Manual Transmission Engine Flywheel 0.666
Oil Filter 1.836
Oil Filter Adapter 1.84
Oil Filter Adapter Gasket 1.84
Oil Level Indicator 1.516
Oil Level Indicator Tube 1.516
Oil Pan Kit with Gasket 1.429
Oil Pan Reinforcement 1.426
Oil Pump 1.652
Oil Pump Drive Shaft 1.639
Piston with Pin 0.629
Piston with Ring Kit 0.643
Radiator Air Deflector 1.272
Radiator Fan Shroud 1.277
Radiator Outlet Hose 1.173
Radiator Surge Tank 1.24
Spark Plug 2.27
Starter Motor 2.041
Throttle Body 3.725
Valve Lifter 0.459
Valve Lifter Guide 0.439
Valve Pushrod 0.426
Valve Rocker Arm Cover 0.386
Valve Rocker Arm Cover Gasket 0.423
Valve Spring 0.303
Water Pump Gasket 1.079
Water Pump Kit 1.069
Water Pump with Gasket 1.069

Sealers, Adhesives, and Lubricants
GM Part Number Type Of Material Application
1052396 Engine Oil Supplement Bearing Surfaces at Assembly
1051396 Engine Oil Supplement Camshaft Bearings, Lobes
12345493 Loctite® 271 Flywheel Bolts
12345382 Loctite® 242 Engine Mount Bolts
12346286 Loctite® 5900 Oil Pan, Oil Pan Bolts
1051396 Engine Oil Supplement Add to engine oil after new cam, lifters, or crankshaft bearing installation.
1052914 RTV Sealant Crankshaft Keyway
1052080 Gasket Paste Water Pump Bolts
12345493 Loctite® DRI-LOC Sealer Water Jacket Core Plugs
12346004 Thread Sealer Engine Block Threaded Plugs
12346286 Loctite® 5900 Rear Oil Pan Seal Ears



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

Quote:

the replacement i got from northern was an actual solid machined cam

Northern Auto Parts? That would mean you've got a Federal Mogul / Sealed Power cam.

Northern lists 0268C Cam Kit for $211 which includes new lifters and timing set for the 94 - 97 cars. Going directly to the Federal Mogul catalog we get the following part numbers:

Cam: Sealed Power CS1567
Lifters: HT2270
Cam and lifter kit: KC1567


Cam specs are given as follows:
Part Number CS1567
Cam Type HROL
Intake Lift 0.287
Exhaust Lift 0.287
Intake Duration 198
Exhaust Duration 198
Overlap 0
Intake Lash 0
Exhaust Lash 0

Partsamerica lists the cam separately at $216. Northern doesn't list it, but they might order it if asked.

Not sure why you'd order this cam to regrind, but if the cam comes from Sealed Power, then maybe cam cores can be obtained?

-->Slow

The 94 cams (and 95 id think) were assembled cams with billet lobes pressed on a hollow shaft. Im assuming the Sealed Power replacement is the same.

From what I saw most places just list the 96+ cam as it has the same profile but adds the crank posistion sensor ring, but is a cast cam.


I have two of these billet lobe (stock) cams at Comp right now. They are looking into the possibility of regrinding it for mech roller lifters (my keyed Crowers came in last week ) .

OR maybee making a core cheaper (ie: not 1400 bux as we first thought). They were asking if the pump drive gear was the same as a SBC. Im not sure what they have in mind but it def has me interested. Im almost wondering if they have some sort of "base" core that they could use to make a core for me out of.

Ill try to post something later this week when I have more info.

Dan


YEP, my 60' times suck

247HP/267ftlbs at 13psi with built motor

Project updates and stuff: www.clubhousecustoms.com
email: dan@clubhousecustoms.com

Not sure why you'd expect the aftermarket cam to be the same as OE, but you might be right. Manufacturing a cam that way requires completely different equipment than traditional cams and I'd expect this new equipment to be quite expensive. If a given brand of aftermarket cams are made the same way, then either (1) this manufacturing technique is extremely inexpensive and simple to implement, or (2) the OE and aftermarket cams are from the same source.

-->Slow

thanks for all the specs man i really really appreciate that