I am considering the apexi SFAC, with only plans for bolt-ons is it worth the money? I ask because I witnessed my buddies Sentra spec-v gaining 12hp at the wheel on the dyno adjusting the air fuel ratio, basic bolt on’s. I know it can be a helpful tool after installing cams or boost so should I just wait?
2001 Z24 (bolt-ons) 15.01 @ 90.78mph
You can ask anyone around here that reads my posts that I'm a big advocater on using the SAFC-2. From personal experience, I needed it after installing my cams because our computers tend to make us run really rich (which is what was happening to me. Now in your case, if you were doing basic bolt ons and don't plan on opening up the motor for anything, I don't think you will need it.
Fuel adjustment isn't necessary unless you can fully find out if your running rich or lean, I doubt you will need it. I had pretty much ever bolt on you can think of and didn't experience any issues...it was when I put in my cams when issues happened and took it to a dyno and they found I was running rich.
Now if you do change your mind and decide to do a cam upgrade...either get the SAFC-2 before you install the cams or just afterwards cause you will more than likely need it. I will be so worth it if you do so, I know that when I adjusted it myself I felt a big gain and my car was pulling much harder just by adjusting it more to the fuel level I needed.
It's possible that your friend gained that much power just cause his computer wasn't putting the right fuel amount was losing a good amount of power. In your case though, don't think you'll need it with just bolt ons but a good investment for future motor work/boost plans.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
I must agree with NJs Honda Killa, I have been using the S-AFC2 on my Talon for 3 years now. Apex'i technology is worth every penny.
Team Tach Out
Http://www.team-tachout.com/
Falmouth,VA
they are kind of a pain, but you run into painful times when trying to tune a car just right. people have been known to gain power even tuning a bone stock car on an SAFC. so... yea go for it.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
I would have to say yes it is a good mod for the money if you take the time to put the car on a dyno and tune the SAFC. With out proper tuning it is not worth it. Our cars tend to run rich from the factory, so power can be made.
FU Tuning
my buddys neon gain a good couple of car lengths on me with a little rough tuneing with it. Id say try it and see.
View my MySpace
you don't necessarily have to dyno tune it. if you are smart enough you can create gains off of a street tune and use a dyno to perfect it later on.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
Spotabee Racing wrote:you don't necessarily have to dyno tune it. if you are smart enough you can create gains off of a street tune and use a dyno to perfect it later on.
Your correct. Originally when I had it installed I had them put it on the dyno. They did a mild tune with 3 runs on the dyno. Because of the bad install, the wires came loose and had to be re-installed and I lost all my info but I did know that I was running rich for sure. I street tuned it and man what a difference.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Without a wideband you can not properly tune. might not need the dyno, but need the wideband.
FU Tuning
John Higgins wrote:Without a wideband you can not properly tune. might not need the dyno, but need the wideband.
Very true but you can still get better performance than what the computer is throwing at us.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Thanks for the help guys/girls, My buddy has a wide-band than would come in handy for tuning with the SAFC-2. I agree that proper tuning even on a car that is mostly stock can yield gains, I might just finish bolting up the rest of my bolt-ons and use the wide-band to see how my air fuel is dong before investing in a SAFC-2. What target air fuel ratio should I be gunning for when tuning? 13:1 on NA cars?
2001 Z24 (bolt-ons) 15.01 @ 90.78mph
I personally would wait for the hp tuners thing to come out.
My Car
Sunfires rule! (Tom) wrote:I personally would wait for the hp tuners thing to come out.
Maybe but there is no type of date or even any knowledge that they are fully going to develop a product for us. For all we know, they can backout any second...but atleast we know that they are interested in us.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
There's no knowledge that the HP tuners unit will work as well as how well the SAFC works from what we already know about it. Yes I agree a wideband is very necessary. I'm not sure but I've been wondering if the A/F ratio gauge built into the SAFC will interpret wideband signal?
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
Spotabee Racing wrote:There's no knowledge that the HP tuners unit will work as well as how well the SAFC works from what we already know about it. Yes I agree a wideband is very necessary. I'm not sure but I've been wondering if the A/F ratio gauge built into the SAFC will interpret wideband signal?
I will say as for HP Tuners software. If it comes out would for sure be much better. Pick up August Chevy High Performance mag. They have a write up about HP Tuners software for GM ODBII. I know it was not for a J,. but in general will be about the same. If it does half of what it did on the test truck, I would buy it.
FU Tuning
Okay, I'm gonna sound like a newb here but......
So what is the proper A/F ratio of a well-tuned NA car? (Like idle: 13:1, WOT: 11:1)? Cause, I think I am still running rich and am considering the SAFC-II to lean it back out a little. Would this produce any gains? I was under the impression that running rich would add hp...(Is that wrong?)
EnviouZ wrote:Okay, I'm gonna sound like a newb here but......
So what is the proper A/F ratio of a well-tuned NA car? (Like idle: 13:1, WOT: 11:1)? Cause, I think I am still running rich and am considering the SAFC-II to lean it back out a little. Would this produce any gains? I was under the impression that running rich would add hp...(Is that wrong?)
The old saying is lean is mean. Lean makes more power (to a point). I'm not sure the exact N/A air/fuel, but I thought it was like 12:7 at WOT.
FU Tuning
Okay, cool. Cause I have noticed it kinda bogging around town, ususally under 3K, after that it really comes on the power...I think part of that is the H.O. mani and header robbing some low end tq but the main problem I think is running rich. At Vo-Tech we have a Snap-On Modis, and it will tell me realtime A/F ratio, so what is it actually suposed to be at for best power?
Also, would the SAFC be beneficial for helping this?
I'm not sure the exact Air.fuel rario you need to be at on a N/A car. Yes a SAFC will allow you to adjust fuel mixture.
FU Tuning
well, ok. Stoich is 14.7:1 at WOT, which is what stock PCM / o2 sensors keep the car at. Turbo cars you want to run a little more rich, but not too rich. N/A cars you want to run a taaaaaad lean. Now, the best way to make power is running at the very top edge of the lean side. You will have to play around with it for a while to get everything figured out and what your car likes more.
I was a retard, and now I'm permanently banned.
well i know i was running a 15:1 a/f on a slightly modded N/A car and it ran like crap no power
