Ok well below are pictures of the head I have been working on.
It has chromoly retainers and locks, with stronger springs, hardened shims, new style valve seals, custom made valves with 5/16 stems, bored and machined valves guides, longer chromoly puchrods, and 1.6 roller rockers.
Also a gasket match port and polish.
nice head.. i kinda wish i would've kept my 2.2 but then again the v6 smokes it..
- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs
Oedwards wrote:nice head.. i kinda wish i would've kept my 2.2 but then again the v6 smokes it..
only a stock 2.2 ..... not this one, unless your heavily built too
I swapped to the v6 because it was free (with blown head gaskets) and i figured it had more potential, its stock but i am building the car and getting it ready for drag racing and then i will build the motor.
- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs
Would a head like this fit on my 95 cav with the older from what i have learned so far ln2 motor?
Hey Phil any chance that we could get some more specific specs on the valvetrain? I know its your build and you did all the work but i just want to compare it to mine? Any chance you can post it up or send me a pm?
I had basically the same set up 6 years ago but with the addition of ross pistions and erson regrind. It was a waste of time and money. But then again I had nothing for tunability so it was more of my fault than anything. Hope it goes better for you than it did for me.
p.s.= I had to use a spacer for the valve cover to fit over the roller rockers.
so you didn't machine the valve spring seats down? your just going to shim the springs up and have longer push rods and valves?
On the 2200 head there's really no room to machine the valve seats because the exhaust side's are too close to the waterjacket as is. Best way to do it on a 2200 is swap to 2.2 valves and custom pushrods, or custom valves and pushrods and then shim as necessary. You don't have to shim much we're talking less than .080" if I remember correctly. In all honesty depending on the spring rate you go with you can just absorb the extra installed height to bring the pressure down to reasonable levels and save yourself the shimming. Lots of options to go with really.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Yes, this 2200 head wont fit on a older 2.2. I got most of my parts from manley performance, and they also made the custom valves. Stock head size, longer and thicker stem, and a installed height bead lock for 1.750. The shim I used was .060". I also had my machine shop machine the guides to fit the bigger stems, and also cut the top down to fit new style teflon seals.
Im working on designing a valve cover spacer for this setup too. Should be done within the month, I just got laid off so I have plenty of time to design it, just no money to actually get it made!
Luis when I get around to checking my reciepts I will post the part numbers for you.
JerseyJayLN2: I remembered you saying something about that so thats why I stayed away from going down, so I went up.
Phil Lindsay wrote:
JerseyJayLN2: I remembered you saying something about that so thats why I stayed away from going down, so I went up.
I had no problem machining the spring seats...
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
What kind of spring pressures are you running?
Im running 405 lbs/in!
Phil Lindsay wrote:What kind of spring pressures are you running?
Im running 405 lbs/in!
Thats a little high.... Mine is around 135(seat) / 320(max lift)....
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:Phil Lindsay wrote:What kind of spring pressures are you running?
Im running 405 lbs/in!
Thats a little high.... Mine is around 135(seat) / 320(max lift)....
When I say "max lift" , I am referring to fully open load.....
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:Phil Lindsay wrote:What kind of spring pressures are you running?
Im running 405 lbs/in!
Thats a little high.... Mine is around 135(seat) / 320(max lift)....
When I say "max lift" , I am referring to fully open load.....
may i ask what springs you are planning on running? For my setup im looking to run the Ford 2 valve 37830 springs:
O.D top: 0.967", bottom 1.096"
I.D. top: 0.636", bottom 0.765"
Seat pressure: 85 lbs @ 1.640" (96 lbs @ 1.600" as on the 2200)
Open Pressure: 250 lbs @ 1.040"
Coil bind: 1.000"
Rate: 275 lbs/in.
Max Lift: 0.620" (0.580" on the 2200)
Now i need to find retainers and locks.
Phil where did you get your pushrods? Im looking for a chromoly set at stock height.
ImPhat0260/Cavattack2000 wrote:Phil Lindsay wrote:
JerseyJayLN2: I remembered you saying something about that so thats why I stayed away from going down, so I went up.
I had no problem machining the spring seats...
How much did you go down by? The head I cut up, going down .100" would bring the lowest part of the seat flush with the rocker gallery floor, and anything beyond that is getting under the floor. SBC springs are typically 1.8" installed height compared to the 2200's 1.6", so you'd be cutting it pretty close that way. I'm not saying machining them down is a recipe for instant failure, but its close enough to make me nervous about the long term affects of consistent heating/cooling cycles and increased spring pressures. Hell, you may go the normal life of the motor with no issues at all but its close enough where I would be nervous about it and thus, if I wouldn't do it, I wouldn't recommend it to others. My humble opinion, thats all.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
JerseyJayLN2 (Scarab) wrote:
How much did you go down by? The head I cut up, going down .100" would bring the lowest part of the seat flush with the rocker gallery floor, and anything beyond that is getting under the floor. SBC springs are typically 1.8" installed height compared to the 2200's 1.6", so you'd be cutting it pretty close that way. I'm not saying machining them down is a recipe for instant failure, but its close enough to make me nervous about the long term affects of consistent heating/cooling cycles and increased spring pressures. Hell, you may go the normal life of the motor with no issues at all but its close enough where I would be nervous about it and thus, if I wouldn't do it, I wouldn't recommend it to others. My humble opinion, thats all.
They were cut .100 .... Still had plenty more we could cut if we had too.... This is not the best pic, but you it gives you a visual....
Phil, what valve seals/spring guides did you use?
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
And the exhaust seat at the low side is just a hair above the floor right? Like I said, I'm not a machinist, nor an engine builder, but .200" for 1.8" installed height would be just below the floor line, which is into the waterjacket (though not through it) and frankly, that would make me nervous lol. Go ahead and prove me wrong though, I'd actually consider it good news
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
JerseyJayLN2 (Scarab) wrote:And the exhaust seat at the low side is just a hair above the floor right? Like I said, I'm not a machinist, nor an engine builder, but .200" for 1.8" installed height would be just below the floor line, which is into the waterjacket (though not through it) and frankly, that would make me nervous lol. Go ahead and prove me wrong though, I'd actually consider it good news
I wish I had a better picture because its really bad angle to see in the pic. I assure you, plenty room remains
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
MadJack wrote: Once again, these springs would still use the stock spring seats, locks and retainers, just have to machine the seats for the additional installed height.
Thats where I ran into problems. The stock spring seats (built into the valve seals) were a total FAIL.... They would not go down far enough. I had to use a 2 piece style locator/seal. I can tell you that an old style LS1 (stock) locator works perfectly. The id of ours is a .515 and the LS1 id is .500(has clearance to slide right on though)
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
Everytime im by a computer I never have my paperwork around to tell you guys what parts I used.
I know all the parts were from Manley Performance.
Only stock piece I used was the guide, then I have it bored out to 5/16 ID, and machined down so I could used the push on one piece teflon valve seal.
Check the pics on pg. 1, you can see the machining where the seal would go.
Ok well I finally got the part numbers.
The springs are Manley Performance 221423-1 (12.25 * 8 = 98.00)
Max Lift .575
OD 1.255
ID .830
115@1.750
350@ 1.175
409 lbs/in
Coil Bind 1.100
The retainers are Manley Performance 23631-1 (3.25*8=26.00)
OD 1.255
7* Lock Style
5/16 Stem
The locks are Manley Performance 13098-1 (3.15*8=25.20)
7* Lock Style
5/16 Stem
The valves were custom made with a longer stem, and a wider stem. (26.15*8=209.20)
The seals are a parts number from my machine shop. VIC-B45423 (1.82*8=14.96)
The guides are the stock GM 2200 guides, bored out to fit the 5/16" stems, and machined on top to fit the new seals. (1.82*8=14.96)
I used a spring shim since the stock seal has a seat buil into it. I used the .030 shim from Comp Cams. (20.41)
Re seating the valves in the head (3 angle valve job) (54.00)
Re surface the head. (75.00)
Install and remove guides (86.00)
Machine guides (24.00)
Grand Total: 647.73 w/o tax and shipping.
Just read your post. How do you like this setup so far? Did you feel any type of performance gain?
Also sent you a PM.
'00 GMC Sonoma 2200
'02 Chevy Cavalier 2200
